I was spanked a few times as a child, up until the age of 10 or so. I didn't see it as abuse then and don't now. I do think we have more information on stuff like that now though, and would never spank a child now. I wouldn't get too upset about it though if someone else did it to their child.
I agree with the comments here, that the line is crossed when it becomes excessive or more for the parent than the child. I think you see that more than people want to admit though. While there are some responsible parents, I think the are more who take it too far than we would like to admit, so I do think it's an important discussion to have. I know I've been in a situation where I've seen a parent taking it too far, and I know I should approach them, gently suggest maybe they can calm down a bit, but don't because people don't like to be told what they are doing is wrong and that goes ten times when it comes to their kids.
As far as why I wouldn't spank a child now goes simply to the fact that research shows other punishments are far more effective than spanking. As well, if spanking is used too much, even in a 'sensible' way, it can encourage aggressive behavior in the child. I've defintely had the urge to on a few occasions though, haha. (I've done the step dad thing with two of my serious girlfriends, one of which did use spankings.)
I also think the overall discussion about child abuse is important because I do think, like sexual abuse and rape, it tends to get under reported and obviously has far reaching consequences. These are people in their formative years. Abuse can trigger a cycle that could last through families for dozens even hundreds of years. And of course, abuse doesn't have to be physical. I do know a bit about these bad things both from my own life (not my parents) and women I've had relationships with. It really messes thing up for a long time.
So what do you all think of this? This is the least of what occurred in my house, growing up. I've put the video in NSFW tags for obvious reasons, amongst them that there is language used, that isn't safe for work/kids.
NSFW!
I never shared a lot of what went on in my house growing up, with my kids. Then this video came out a couple of years ago, the kids each saw it after it hit the news, and then most of the rest of my story came out, when the kids were incensed with this video. They are very angry with my parents, but obviously, since my dad's gone now, the anger is for my mother mainly. They were horrified.
Geez that is disturbing stuff. I looked up the story -- that dude was a judge in Texas family court and he just lost his seat last month. Am I the only one who thinks he should have been in prison for assault instead of working as a judge?
You'd certainly get in legal trouble for doing that to another person, but not for doing it to your child?
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As a child of the 70s I was spanked and given the belt by my parents...I didn't, and don't, think I was abused though. Corporal punish wasn't the first resort, it was a last resort, when "I just wasn't getting it". My parents were both loving and took good care of all of us. Truth be told I was the type of kid I don't think I'd let my kids hang around with, so I probably got off easy with the "abuse" I did get.
If anything I was abused at school. Back then it was common place for teachers to put their hands on you, berate you, and humiliate you. They could strap you or hit you if they wanted. Made to stand at the front of the class with gum on your nose or dunce cap. Couple that with rampant bullying and a spanking from mom or dad was a walk in the park.
I have swatted my kids on the a$$ before...but only as a last resort. Usually when they were having a massive melt down tantrum and wouldn't stay on time out till they calmed down. So we would swat them on the a$$, only once with a hand, to snap them out of it...and it worked.
Come on let's admit it sometimes you see a kid and you think that little bugger needs a good swift kick in the pants.
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I don't think we're going to get anyone to admit (or agree) with the idea that their parents were abusing them when they used a belt on them back in, say, the 70's or even 80's. Right or wrong (I'd go with wrong), but that was how things were done. It wasn't considered abusive at the time.
Also, people tend to like their parents still, and don't want to think of them in such terms. We've had a few people in this thread say "I got treated pretty roughly... but it wasn't abuse.", and who am I to argue with them?
But... even if it doesn't look like abuse then, most of us would probably consider it abuse now if we knew our next door neighbour was using a belt on a 5-year-old. Or if we saw a dad in the mall cracking his kid in the face with the back of his hand.
We don't cane our criminals in Canada yet it is OK to spank children with some parents doing so with a wooden spoon or strap.
If the Conservatives proposed caning as a punishment for criminals, people would be up in arms about how barbaric it is. If its good enough for your kids, why isn't it good enough for criminals?
I haven't really read through this thread, but based on what is considered child abuse... every single one of my friends, myself included would have been considered 'abused'. I was grabbed by the throat and spanked with a length of garden hose by our neighbor for making fun of his mentally disabled daughter and throwing dirt clods at her when I was 9. And when he brought me home, my dad thanked him, and gave me more. It was just different times.
We were all spanked, my old man hit me in the face... hard quite a few times for mouthing off my mother or elders, and motivating children wasn't the same then. Parents didn't tell you what a special little boy you were, they told it more like it is, and it wasn't sugar coated. If you were being an a-hole, they called you an a-hole. If you were a loser at school, you were told you are a loser at school headed for a lifelong career at the local Esso station.
I am not saying one way is better than the other, but the current definitions of child abuse, I am assuming a lot more than 30% of people that grew up anywhere from the beginning of time up until the mid 90's, would have a case to claim they suffered it.
As weird as it sounds, having a dad that was a believer in corporal style punishment, probably saved me from a life of crime and a fixed address in Loserville. At around 13 or 14 it finally clicked, and I finally started thinking about consequences to my actions. And stopped myself from doing bad things, knowing I would have to answer to him. I was a really bad kid, borderline evil, and that was the type of upbringing I likely needed. That, or military school. Without it, I know I would not be where I am today, that's for sure.
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Slapped, hit, spanked: check to all
Pushed, grabbed, something thrown at: check to all
Kicked: check (no burning thank god)
What no belt buckle? I hated that.
No hockey stick? That hurt.
I definitely got beaten more than the average kid physically as well as some mental stuff. Can't say if I ever suffered from it as I feel I'm more together than the average person and I've never looked back and dwelled on it as I just moved on. I guess if I got an addiction or severely depressed I could fall back on that as an excuse but that would be stupid.
I didn't quote it but I can't imagine a scenario where a kid is being spanked "calmly", and therefore a calm spank is not abuse, as a poster above said. Isn't the whole point of a spank that a kid does something, the parent is pissed about the disobedience, and the result is a spank. It's not like the parent schedules a spank for later when everyone has calmed down. If you were calm you wouldn't have the inclination to hit them anymore.
Anyways, count me among the 1 in 3. I'm comfortable identifying what happened to me as abuse but I don't have any attachments to the label. It doesn't impact my life. Did people have it worse and more systemically? Most definitely. But what happened to me does still fit the definition of abuse and I agree with that definition.
I didn't quote it but I can't imagine a scenario where a kid is being spanked "calmly", and therefore a calm spank is not abuse, as a poster above said. Isn't the whole point of a spank that a kid does something, the parent is pissed about the disobedience, and the result is a spank. It's not like the parent schedules a spank for later when everyone has calmed down. If you were calm you wouldn't have the inclination to hit them anymore.
Anyways, count me among the 1 in 3. I'm comfortable identifying what happened to me as abuse but I don't have any attachments to the label. It doesn't impact my life. Did people have it worse and more systemically? Most definitely. But what happened to me does still fit the definition of abuse and I agree with that definition.
I am the same. I don't harbor any anger towards my dad, and I don't even think about it day to day. In fact he is probably the funniest person I've ever known. However, I believe it impacted him, far more than me. He has eluded in the past about how horrible he felt about my upbringing, and how he has so much guilt about it. In reality, he knew no better. That's how he was raised, that's how I was raised. People didn't start saying spanking and hitting kids was wrong until the 80's.
So what do you all think of this? This is the least of what occurred in my house, growing up. I've put the video in NSFW tags for obvious reasons, amongst them that there is language used, that isn't safe for work/kids.
NSFW!
I never shared a lot of what went on in my house growing up, with my kids. Then this video came out a couple of years ago, the kids each saw it after it hit the news, and then most of the rest of my story came out, when the kids were incensed with this video. They are very angry with my parents, but obviously, since my dad's gone now, the anger is for my mother mainly. They were horrified.
I'm sorry, but I simply could not watch more than a few seconds of this. That you grew up in a household even worse than this is hard to comprehend.
Big kudos to you for breaking the cycle. It takes a strong character to overcome what you grew up with. You can and should be proud.
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The notion that the very same people who are our life lines as children, who feed us, soothe us and take care of us in every possible way can then strike fear or pain or crippling anxiety into us must be wrenching for a kid. There must be a moment where a kid thinks, wtf? Is this really happening?
My dad spanked me. According to an overprotective mother I know, he abused me and I should have been taken away from me. Also others said, some criteria would be nice.
On an unrelated note, I find the juxtaposition between the Topic Title and your avatar kinda funny.
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Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
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Originally Posted by Minnie
Well, my siblings and I would really skew their data. There are 4 of us in my family - we all experienced outright abuse at the hands of our parents. I'm not talking little swats on the ass, or a tap on the hand to keep us from reaching for something hot, for example. This was full on abuse - we were beaten. We were kicked, slapped and slapped hard, we were thrown into walls, onto the floor, we were stomped on (I have back issues from being stomped in the back), kicked in the back/belly/ribs, punched in the head (never the face, because that left visible marks), punched in the stomach, punched in the back, anywhere they could land a punch. We were hit with any object they could grab at during a rage. We had our hair pulled - we were dragged around by our hair. One of my brothers had his arm yanked out of the socket numerous times. We were choked. There was so much more, but there's not enough server space to get in to it all.
There was also a lot of emotional/verbal/mental abuse as well. 3 out of the 4 of us were sexually abused but not by our parents - that was perpetrated by family members or family friends.
The last time my mother slapped and punched me, I was in my late 20s, married with children and she only finally quit doing that after I finally slapped her back that last time, and threatened to call the police on her - it was the one and only time I 'fought' back, when I slapped her. That was finally the end of the physical abuse. She has continued with manipulation and other forms of abuse, with all of us, to this day which is why we cut off contact with her 2.5 years ago. She continues to try and make contact with us, but we rebuff at every turn. I have zero contact with her, my brothers have limited contact with her.
My eyes welled up with tears as I read your post.
The fact that you are a loving and caring person speaks volumes to the courage you had and still have for breaking the cycle of abuse.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportsJunky
The notion that the very same people who are our life lines as children, who feed us, soothe us and take care of us in every possible way can then strike fear or pain or crippling anxiety into us must be wrenching for a kid. There must be a moment where a kid thinks, wtf? Is this really happening?
This a book that I feel everyone should read - "A Child Called It" by Dave Pelzer. Like our own Minnie, Dave rose above the unspeakable abuse he got from his mother and how he was able to turn his life around.....
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This book chronicles the unforgettable account of one of the most severe child abuse cases in California history. It is the story of Dave Pelzer, who was brutally beaten and starved by his emotionally unstable, alcoholic mother: a mother who played tortuous, unpredictable games--games that left him nearly dead. He had to learn how to play his mother's games in order to survive because she no longer considered him a son, but a slave; and no longer a boy, but an "it."
Dave's bed was an old army cot in the basement, and his clothes were torn and raunchy. When his mother allowed him the luxury of food, it was nothing more than spoiled scraps that even the dogs refused to eat. The outside world knew nothing of his living nightmare. He had nothing or no one to turn to, but his dreams kept him alive--dreams of someone taking care of him, loving him and calling him their son
For those wondering about the specifics, this report was based on a small subset of questions asked as part of a larger survey by Stats-Can about Mental Health in Canada.
The childhood experiences questions are near the end, at page 183 of the PDF...
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The next few questions are about things that may have happened to you before you were 16 in your school, in your neighbourhood, or in your family. Your responses are important whether or not you have had any of these experiences. Remember that all information provided is strictly confidential.
Before age 16, how many times did you see or hear any one of your parents, step-parents or guardians hit each other or another adult in your home? By adult, I mean anyone 18 years and over.
Before age 16, how many times did an adult slap you on the face, head or ears or hit or spank you with something hard to hurt you?
Before age 16, how many times did an adult push, grab, shove or throw something at you to hurt you?
Before age 16, how many times did an adult kick, bite, punch, choke, burn you, or physically attack you in some way?
Before age 16, how many times did an adult force you or attempt to force you into any unwanted sexual activity, by threatening you, holding you down or hurting you in some way?
Before age 16, how many times did an adult touch you against your will in any sexual way? By this, I mean anything from unwanted touching or grabbing, to kissing or fondling.
The choices for each question are:
A: Never
B: 1 or 2 times
C: 3 to 5 times
D: 6 to 10 times
E: More than 10 times
So, the questions are specifically about abuse by adults, and exclude abuse/rough-housing by other children (siblings or otherwise). Also, in this study, they counted any response of C, D, or E as exposure to that type of abuse.
It's also interesting to note that for "spanking" it specifies the use of a hard object. So, that presumably excludes spanking with a hand.
Thankfully, I can count myself among the 2/3 Canadians who can say "Never" to all of the above.
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