One in Three Canadians Suffered Some Form of Child Abuse

[habernac]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

So what has changed from when you were a kid?

Don't know. We've evolved maybe. Hitting hurts. I can explain to my kids what they've done wrong and revoke privileges, etc. I don't see any reason for there to be a physical punishment.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by habernac

Don't know. We've evolved maybe. Hitting hurts. I can explain to my kids what they've done wrong and revoke privileges, etc. I don't see any reason for there to be a physical punishment.

Thanks, we seem to be along the same lines of thought, however I find it interesting that you would post:

Dad got me pretty good once, but I think I deserved it

I would suggest that you didn't deserve it.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Thanks, we seem to be along the same lines of thought, however I find it interesting that you would post:




I would suggest that you didn't deserve it.

Yeah, again, different time. I hold no ill will towards him for it. I certainly remember it. He immediately felt awful about it.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by habernac

Yeah, again, different time. I hold no ill will towards him for it. I certainly remember it. He immediately felt awful about it.

Good for you for holding no ill will.


Do you mind explaining "different time"?

[habernac]

35 years ago. There was a different way to discipline your kid back then.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

So is it the location of the hitting (ie: the butt) that makes it non-abusive?

Location, level of force used, and situation it is used in. Spanking could definately be abusive. A slap to the face seems abusive by definition.

I have considered spanking as a form of discipline, I haven't used it yet but I think I am open to it if it is done while calm and not angry. It is a direct consequence to an action.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by GGG

Location, level of force used, and situation it is used in. Spanking could definately be abusive. A slap to the face seems abusive by definition.

I have considered spanking as a form of discipline, I haven't used it yet but I think I am open to it if it is done while calm and not angry. It is a direct consequence to an action.

My problem is what is the level of force that is used, how do you cap it.

There are other direct consequences to actions, which don't involve violence, IMO.

[strombad]

Spanking is abuse, not matter how you spin it.

The question is, are you comfortable abusing your child as a means of discipline?

What is or is not abuse isn't up for debate, but by all means, feel free to be ok with abusing your children/having been abused as a child. I was spanked once. Was it abuse? Yeah, but it was still acceptable at the time. Times have changed. Take it from someone who is married to a social worker: Striking your child in any way, for any reason, is abuse.

[nik-]

I think this really diminishes real child abuse. I got spankings with belts and wooden spoons, I had things thrown at me, I would never consider myself abused at all.

This kind of melts the experiences of real victims into the ones of people who really have no right to claim abuse.

It's too bad.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by habernac

35 years ago. There was a different way to discipline your kid back then.

There was also different ways to:

- Treat women
- Treat black people
- Treat gay people
- Treat minorities in general


and a whole whack of other things. These things change over time, yes, but that doesn't make them right retroactively. If you were racist in 1980, whether it was socially acceptable at the time or not, it's still racist. Or homophobic or what have you.

Originally Posted by nik-

I think this really diminishes real child abuse. I got spankings with belts and wooden spoons, I had things thrown at me, I would never consider myself abused at all.

This kind of melts the experiences of real victims into the ones of people who really have no right to claim abuse.

It's too bad.

I would also agree with this. Whether or not something is considered "abuse" and whether or not someone is an abuse victim are different. Yes, I was spanked as a kid sometimes and no I don't consider myself a victim of abuse or to have psychological effects from it.

People that are sexually abused, tied up in basements, constantly verbally berated, etc etc. are the real victims of heinous things.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by habernac

Don't know. We've evolved maybe. Hitting hurts. I can explain to my kids what they've done wrong and revoke privileges, etc. I don't see any reason for there to be a physical punishment.

I find it interesting in how you were raised affects how you raise your kids. Many people seem to think violence begets violence, but I am not always sure that is the case.

I am pretty sure I wasn't abused, but my Dad was really tough on me when I was a kid. I won't go into details but I am sure it crossed the line a few times, but wasn't systemic by any means. Then again, some people on here probably had it the same and feel that it is ok for a parent to be like that sometimes.

The one reason why I refrain from hitting my kids, is just that. I don't want them to have the same adult relationship with me, that I have with my Dad. He super mellow now and you could never tell he could be like how he was. However, my relationship with him always has this uneasiness to it. Just always infused with an undertone of anger. Maybe that is normal, who knows, but I don't like it.

So I look at my son and I do have urges to hit him sometimes, as every parent has with their kids. However, I do find myself consciously restraining myself, as I don't want him to have that fear that I had. Then I start to think if I should be more physical (like grab him) to show him who's boss. Maybe then he would take me more seriously.

I dunno, I just know hitting your kids (spanking or whatever) is a fine line, and I think my history and fear of crossing it and the consequences has me playing it safe. So he gets the corner for a time out, and I guess I will just play it safe for now, and take my rage out like many parents these days..by drinking

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I am sorry to hear about your childhood. The positive, from other posts on this site is you seem to have a good relationship with your kids.

Thank you, sincerely. We do. I've worked really hard at those relationships.

We started out spanking when we first had children. Swats on the butt, and occasional taps on the hand, as I mentioned in my last post. The taps to the hand were for things like reaching for something hot, etc.

However, it really really bothered me. How could I tell my kids not to use their hands to strike each other, that it was wrong and we needed to use our words instead, when we were spanking them? Made zero sense to me, plus there's the fact that if I were to smack an adult, I could easily be charged with assault. Why did we view it differently just because they were our children?

So we stopped. We began using redirection when they were young for example, and then "your actions have consequences" reasoning, things like that. We also focused heavily on using our words correctly, that words could hurt pretty badly as well. For example, my parents used to tell me that I was ######ed, would never amount to anything, wouldn't do well in my life, and on and on. That's not something I've ever said to my children, and I'm proud of that.

Does that mean we never made mistakes? Hell no. We have. It's inevitable. But we've also made concerted efforts to talk those things out, apologize when necessary, and so forth. An apology is something I have never received from my mother and I doubt I ever will. I should say, she said sorry once, but it was a very qualified apology with many excuses. No. Either you're sorry period, or you're not. My dad apologized, but it took him until he was on his deathbed, which is too bad.

It took me a long time to realize we were not bad kids, not by any stretch. We were absolutely normal kids, trying to figure life out and we weren't evil, we weren't possessed by the devil/demons, that we weren't ######ed/stupid/dumb/useless and all the other crap leveled at us. We were actually normal, decent kids and that's the same way I've approached parenting with my own children. They are in need of guidance and help and so we've/I've done everything within my power to break that cycle of abuse.

The funny part is, one of my younger brothers said to me that he thought that the way I/we were raised, I'd be a pretty lenient parent, the kids might get away with anything/everything, but that it's been the opposite. We/I'm not a dictator, by any stretch, but we've never allowed the kids to get away with murder, either. If we've said "this is the consequence to such and such an action" the kids have always known that we follow through. We do examine everything, and we've sometimes adjusted the consequence slightly, given circumstances, but we have been consistent, and I think that has made a huge difference.

Sorry, tl:dr.

[CaptainCrunch]

Geez I was just thinking that under that criteria I was abused, Heck I remember a couple of times when me and my old man would actually be throwing fists in the back yard.

My parents didn't always go to spanking or swatting, but that nuclear option was always there and hanging over our heads.

We wouldn't get spanked for bad grades for example, that was a grounding. I would get all kinds of warnings before the red button was pushed, but I can safely say that it wasn't a light swat on the butt.

But under the criteria above, I was a massive abuse victim.

Some of these studies that tend to label things from the deep past by modern terms are bogus and traps in nature.

I am absolutely on board with the sexual classfications. But if you look at the beat downs I took from my siblings, and the spankings from my parents for example, I should be a serial killer.

I honestly don't think its a spanking that entails physical abuse, I firmly believe that its how its handled by the parent that could construe abuse.

[RougeUnderoos]

I don't think we're going to get anyone to admit (or agree) with the idea that their parents were abusing them when they used a belt on them back in, say, the 70's or even 80's. Right or wrong (I'd go with wrong), but that was how things were done. It wasn't considered abusive at the time.

Also, people tend to like their parents still, and don't want to think of them in such terms. We've had a few people in this thread say "I got treated pretty roughly... but it wasn't abuse.", and who am I to argue with them?

But... even if it doesn't look like abuse then, most of us would probably consider it abuse now if we knew our next door neighbour was using a belt on a 5-year-old. Or if we saw a dad in the mall cracking his kid in the face with the back of his hand.

[V]

Originally Posted by Minnie

How could I tell my kids not to use their hands to strike each other, that it was wrong and we needed to use our words instead, when we were spanking them?

I find it pretty easy.

I do have to say, though, we've found spankings to be pretty useless compared to other forms of discipline once the kid turns around three. At three my kids understood how lousy it was not to get desert when they didn't eat their supper, but my two year old doesn't get it. Taking things away from the kid is far more effective than anything physical once the kid turns about three.

I find that distraction and redirection are some of the least effective tools that we could use to deal with our misbehaving children. I don't see that working too well with kids I see out in public either, but that's nothing more than anecdotal evidence on my part.

[Minnie]

So what do you all think of this? This is the least of what occurred in my house, growing up. I've put the video in NSFW tags for obvious reasons, amongst them that there is language used, that isn't safe for work/kids.

NSFW!

I never shared a lot of what went on in my house growing up, with my kids. Then this video came out a couple of years ago, the kids each saw it after it hit the news, and then most of the rest of my story came out, when the kids were incensed with this video. They are very angry with my parents, but obviously, since my dad's gone now, the anger is for my mother mainly. They were horrified.

[irrevocable]

1 in 3? Yeah, probably. I had a good number of friends who had to go through a lot - myself included.

[V]

Yeah, that's pretty disturbing.

[an hero]

Unfortunately I was hit with belts, studded belts, and the switch, growing up. At a house we lived in, there was elevated tile in the foyer that had a "step" that descended to the carpet floor in the living room. I'd be forced to put my knees up on the tile with my feet back on the carpet and lean forward putting significant pressure on my knees, for upwards of 2 hours sometimes.

One thing I learned is that beating a kid doesn't really teach them anything. It never changed me being a little ####, what happened is I just wound up having knee problems and extreme back sensitivity as I got older.

That's why the worst I do is spank my children with my hand, worst case scenario, for utter disobedience, or when a lesson isn't being learned by any other means. Given how utterly useless belts, studded belts, and switches were in changing that behaviour, it's really something that I find pointless to use. Never once used them (on my kids), never will.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Minnie

So what do you all think of this? This is the least of what occurred in my house, growing up. I've put the video in NSFW tags for obvious reasons, amongst them that there is language used, that isn't safe for work/kids.

NSFW!

I never shared a lot of what went on in my house growing up, with my kids. Then this video came out a couple of years ago, the kids each saw it after it hit the news, and then most of the rest of my story came out, when the kids were incensed with this video. They are very angry with my parents, but obviously, since my dad's gone now, the anger is for my mother mainly. They were horrified.

That to me was abuse, because at one point very early on it because less about what the girl did and more about his own personal gratification, whether its anger and frustration relief or whatever. It was excessive and it came from a place of outright rage.

But then I go back to the criteria, that to me would be highly abusive, plus its over something as minor as using the internet, something that could have had an entire different type of punishment.

Like I said, in our house when I was growing up the spank was a nuclear option.

usually it was removal of privileged, back breaking labor on the weekend or whatever first. But for offenses that included violence or theft or anything on the high level, yeah you might see that spanking.