2013/14 General Heat Discussion Thread

[FBI]

Man if Kanzig pans out, our first 4 picks of 2013 could be a huge part of the flames future...

[RFP]

Originally Posted by FBI

if Kanzig pans out, ...

IMO its a big if

[Da_Chief]

How is Kanzig's skating? There's been mixed reviews.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

How is Kanzig's skating? There's been mixed reviews.

His acceleration is bad, worse than Hanowski, and his top speed is a tick under Hano as well. Things can change though. It'll have to wait till July to see if it's improved.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

His acceleration is bad, worse than Hanowski, and his top speed is a tick under Hano as well. Things can change though. It'll have to wait till July to see if it's improved.

how does it compare to hall gill?

I find it difficult to compare a forward's speed to a defender's.

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

His acceleration is bad, worse than Hanowski, and his top speed is a tick under Hano as well. Things can change though. It'll have to wait till July to see if it's improved.

You would have to think that part of his struggles could be actually finding his legs. Especially if he is still hitting growth spurts. He gets a skating style down and bam, grows another couple inches and has to start all over.

I've seen it a few times in the WHL. Kid is a good skater to end the season, comes into camp next year a couple inches taller and it's like Bambi on ice. Takes them half the season to figure out where the legs are now and get going.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by FBI

Man if Kanzig pans out, our first 4 picks of 2013 could be a huge part of the flames future...

How many shut down dmen in the history of the NHL were that poor offensively in juniors? I can't find anything close

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

how does it compare to hall gill?

I find it difficult to compare a forward's speed to a defender's.

A smidge slower but not by much if at all. The main thing that enabled Gill to survive in the NHL was that he was extremely intelligent on the ice and did not waste movements as he'd be caught otherwise.

Kanzig would have to be similarly efficient if he wants to stick if his speed doesn't improve.

If he becomes even average in speed, we have our #4 shut down D-man with Regehr like upside.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

How many shut down dmen in the history of the NHL were that poor offensively in juniors? I can't find anything close

Matt Greene if I recall correctly was not offensively gifted and he's fairly good.

He had 30 points in three ncaa seasons (3 goals)

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Matt Greene if I recall correctly was not offensively gifted and he's fairly good.

He had 30 points in three ncaa seasons (3 goals)

30pts in 130gp in a very tough to score NCAA

Vs.

17pts in 196gp in the Dub...

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

30pts in 130gp in a very tough to score NCAA

Vs.

17pts in 196gp in the Dub...

Fair enough, he's a long shot to become a NHLer but that's what you expect from a mid to late round draft pick. Just don't write him off completely because he doesn't have a lot of points in the WHL.

His skating is bad, but being a big guy he doesn't have to be a quick as a small guy.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

30pts in 130gp in a very tough to score NCAA

Vs.

17pts in 196gp in the Dub...

He's definitely an outlier in this regard. Also in his physical maturity and size. Intriguing prospect but likely not to make it

[Street Pharmacist]

I hope he does make it, but I'm not holding my breath

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

30pts in 130gp in a very tough to score NCAA

Vs.

17pts in 196gp in the Dub...

This is one of those scenario's where stats aren't really the be all and end all. Kanzig is an unusual type of player. He is such a bear out there physically, that his lack of offense isn't a huge problem. You wouldn't have him on your team to generate offense. You'd have him to smash the little people (to him, they're all little).

Usually you don't find 6-6 250 lb D-men with no excess body fat. Chara is 3 inches taller than him and yet only weight 5 lbs more. If Kanzig makes it, I doubt he'd get more than 10 points a year at best, but that doesn't matter if he can bring that intimidation factor along with him.

Just have to wait and see.

Ps, I hated this pick the most out of all of the ones in the last 4 years, but as time goes on, I am becoming more hopeful.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

This is one of those scenario's where stats aren't really the be all and end all. Kanzig is an unusual type of player. He is such a bear out there physically, that his lack of offense isn't a huge problem. You wouldn't have him on your team to generate offense. You'd have him to smash the little people (to him, they're all little).

Usually you don't find 6-6 250 lb D-men with no excess body fat. Chara is 3 inches taller than him and yet only weight 5 lbs more. If Kanzig makes it, I doubt he'd get more than 10 points a year at best, but that doesn't matter if he can bring that intimidation factor along with him.

Just have to wait and see.

Ps, I hated this pick the most out of all of the ones in the last 4 years, but as time goes on, I am becoming more hopeful.

I get what you're saying, but if he doesn't have the speed, shot or hands to get any points at all in junior, I think he'll end up a big liability on the ice. This isn't football, where it's offence or defence. If you're not pushing the play forward, you're defending. That's not a recipe for success. If you don't have the basic skills to move the puck effectively in junior, how can you in the NHL?


Edit: Though I must say, after rereading the entire thread on the development camp, your assessments were very good predictions for what actually occurred. You clearly are better at assessing talent than I am

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

How is Kanzig's skating? There's been mixed reviews.

Much better than I was expecting when I saw him in prospect camp last year. Several scouting reports seemed to overstate the issue quite a bit.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I get what you're saying, but if he doesn't have the speed, shot or hands to get any points at all in junior, I think he'll end up a big liability on the ice. This isn't football, where it's offence or defence. If you're not pushing the play forward, you're defending. That's not a recipe for success. If you don't have the basic skills to move the puck effectively in junior, how can you in the NHL?


Edit: Though I must say, after rereading the entire thread on the development camp, your assessments were very good predictions for what actually occurred. You clearly are better at assessing talent than I am

During the development camp, Kanzig displayed some fairly decent hockey IQ, especially for someone so devoid of offense. He could make passes, just not great ones. In the drills and scrimmages, he was able to evacuate the puck from the zone without much difficulty.

It's just so difficult to peg him because there are a lot of moving pieces with him (slow, no offense, a monster physically, heady), all of which have to be working in order for him to develop fully. Could it happen, yes. However, there's a quite a few things that need to occur from now till then in order for that to occur. Just have to wait until July to see what progress he's made. If it's very little, then I think we only have Breen 2.0 with added nastiness. If it's more, then we have to wait again and see what shakes.

Also with my evals from July being mostly on the money, that has a lot to do with being a decorator. Having to focus on the most minute details that are mostly inconsequential and extrapolating how things will work out is my day job. I'm just using the same process that I use when I begin formulating concepts for a room as I do for picking apart the players and extrapolating from there. It's a bit odd, but it does seem to work fairly effectively. (I'm as surprised as anyone that it works)

[PeteMoss]

Still think his most likely path is to move to forward and become a 4th line fighter.

A lot of big guys take a big jump offensively in their age 18-19 junior years... by not doing that he's really behind the 8 ball. You could look at a guy like John Erskine as a comp... but even he started putting up points by age 18 in junior.

Looking at other tall guys... one who compares in terms of offense is Nolan Yonkman and he's had a few NHL games but more of an AHL player. Kanzig is more of a fighter than Yonkman though.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

RE: Kanzig's skating.

His acceleration isn't very good, but his long strides get him up to top speed quickly and he is quite fast.

The other day they were doing a drill where the player starts on a faceoff dot. Two pucks are placed at each of the four sides of the circles. They had to skate to each puck and touch it with their stick, returning to the faceoff dot before they went to the next one. With Kanzig's stride he blew every forward out of the water and he wasn't hunched over gasping for breath afterwards like everyone else.

The guy really is a freak physically. If he takes a similar path as Wotherspoon, it'll be ideal - where he starts out slow, makes several mistakes throughout the first couple of months, then really hits his stride and becomes one of the team's best shutdown guys. That'd be ideal.

[Vulcan]

Kanzig's stats aren't that much different from Sieloff's at the same age.

Sieloff (OHL)---GP 45 Goals 3 Assists 8
Kanzig (WHL)--GP 63 Goals 3 Assists 5