I work for Mayor Nenshi, ask me anything!

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Why would CP want to?

For the large amount of money they'd be paid for use of the land? I would imagine that the worth of that corridor from 4th Street E to 10 Street W would be multiple billions, if it were simply fallow land. It's not worth as much if you have to build around any tunnel, but we're still talking land directly adjacent to a downtown that doesn't really have any other direction to grow.

Not to be distracting (sorry Frink), but long-term where else is the corporate area of downtown going to expand? North is the Bow. East has the Elbow and existing residential areas in the way. West they've already gone as far as they can, with the Bow and railway running beside each other past 14th Street. That block of land is just going to get more and more desirable. Running trains along it just cannot be maximizing its value. Leasing it for 99 year terms, so that CP retains ownership, certainly would look good on their balance sheet.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by jammies

For the large amount of money they'd be paid for use of the land? I would imagine that the worth of that corridor from 4th Street E to 10 Street W would be multiple billions, if it were simply fallow land. It's not worth as much if you have to build around any tunnel, but we're still talking land directly adjacent to a downtown that doesn't really have any other direction to grow.

CP sold off the lands adjacent to their right-of-way long ago. All that they own is the thin strip of land that the tracks sit on, which would only be valuable to the adjacent landowners as it's not developable on its own. I can't see a scenario where moving the tracks would be profitable for CP, and tunneling is cost prohibitive in Calgary.

They had the chance to move the tracks in the 60s but that ship has sailed, we are stuck with them.

[Jimmy Stang]

I wouldn't mind seeing another underpass or two (like the new one connecting the East Village to Victoria Park). Although I can only imagine that they're wildly expensive as well, but at least semi-realistic.

Question for the civic/skyscraper folk: Are there any zoning rules that would prohibit a massive office tower (like the Bow) from being constructed south of the tracks in the Beltline, Victoria Park, etc.? Are the CP tracks just a traditional border to "downtown" in people's minds, or is there something more to it?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

I think the main reason it's continuously brought up is that intuitively it seems like it would be such a simple thing to accomplish. Most people who have been paying attention realize that there are significant and complex issues, but in the interest of simplification, is there actually a set of numbers to quantify the difficulty?

I.e., assume that the proper approvals have been granted from every level of government and everyone is on board. What is the time and dollar cost? Once you have that you can address these comments much more quickly and decisively; i.e. "it would cost X million dollars and take X months to accomplish even if you could get approval" would shut people up pretty quickly.

I think a rough guess for moving the tracks would be in the 5-10 billion range.

I don't know if it makes a difference whether you go around the south end of Calgary or the North end.

There's a big reason why the line generally follows the river valley. Moving the rail line requires getting the line out of the river valley one one side, and then back into the river valley where it connects on the other side. At railway maximum allowable grade (whatever that is), that's a HUGE deal. Really the only solution would be to tunnel a large part of it.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

... Really the only solution would be to tunnel a large part of it.

Well... we could get really creative and think of the trains following the Ring Road ROW, in theory, it is a technically doable scenario. But the cost will remain prohibitive and there is not enough economic incentive for anyone involved to do it. So, yes, the line is here to stay for a foreseeable future.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

Question for the civic/skyscraper folk: Are there any zoning rules that would prohibit a massive office tower (like the Bow) from being constructed south of the tracks in the Beltline, Victoria Park, etc.? Are the CP tracks just a traditional border to "downtown" in people's minds, or is there something more to it?

The zoning does change south of the tracks so density and use can transition into Betline.

[nik-]

Honestly, that strip of land would be awesome for an urban park. Too bad it will never happen and we're stuck with that inconvenient eyesore.

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by nik-

It would be better if a CP track bypass was built following Stoney Trail on the north side of the city and reclaim all that land downtown.

Trains can't handle the hill on the NW leg of Stoney trail ( too steep)

[Circa89]

Mr.bunk.
Good sir, who is responsible for landscaping the boulevard on 130th avenue SE.
It has been completed for a decade now and it's landscaping consists of gravel and weeds.
Is this the city's responsibility or was this a contingency placed on a developer?

[Wormius]

So are there better safety nets in place than in Quebec to prevent downtown Calgary from becoming a potential Lac-Mégantic disaster?

[morgin]

Originally Posted by Wormius

So are there better safety nets in place than in Quebec to prevent downtown Calgary from becoming a potential Lac-Mégantic disaster?

Yes. Downtown Calgary is not at the bottom of a hill.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Circa89

Mr.bunk.
Good sir, who is responsible for landscaping the boulevard on 130th avenue SE.
It has been completed for a decade now and it's landscaping consists of gravel and weeds.
Is this the city's responsibility or was this a contingency placed on a developer?

You should really just call 311

[Table 5]

People sure like to stretch the definition of the anything in "ask me anything", ha.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by fotze

Isn't a large part of the difficulty that their legal rights to the land is older and stronger than that of the city? The rail companies are the largest landowners in the country and their legal team would make the city lawyers look like clowns.

That and environmental liabilities associated over the years. I know rail lines can and have had many old spills and nasty things over the years that would take years (or decades) to get sorted out legally.

Regina just finished this process.

http://ckom.com/story/cp-rail-opens-...tion-hub/91757

The main driver though was increasing capacity for CP. the rail yards are the new site for reginas new stadium.

[stampsx2]

@ frinkprof I have no regrets bringing up new, existing or red hearing ideas. It encourages discussion and brings out a wealth of knowledge and new ideas. That's what this forums for.

By the way, i'd also like to see an epic highrise or tower, high speed rail to the coast and the flames to win a Stanley cup. Just a heads up.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

I wouldn't mind seeing another underpass or two (like the new one connecting the East Village to Victoria Park). Although I can only imagine that they're wildly expensive as well, but at least semi-realistic.

Question for the civic/skyscraper folk: Are there any zoning rules that would prohibit a massive office tower (like the Bow) from being constructed south of the tracks in the Beltline, Victoria Park, etc.? Are the CP tracks just a traditional border to "downtown" in people's minds, or is there something more to it?

The old community of Victoria Park no longer exists, it's all Beltline from 14th Street to the Elbow River, and from the CPR tracks to 17th Avenue. I'd go into more detail but I think I'm pushing my luck with long posts with a pontificating tone in this thread. If anyone's interested in that conversation, I'd be happy to take it to PM.

The 11th Street West level crossing will likely be turned into an underpass eventually. There was also some musing during the conceptualization of Remington's Railtown development that there could be a +30 pedestrian overpass of the tracks at 6th Street East. There will also be an underground crossing of the tracks with the future SE/North Central Green line of the LRT.

Other than that, things become a lot more difficult due to existing ownership and land uses of the parcels on opposing sides of the tracks. There's been lots of musing about developments that might span the tracks, with sky bridges or atria at and above the +30 level.

Beltline Communities had also recently put forth the idea of a new underpass for bikes and pedestrians only (no automobiles) at 7th Street West. That idea didn't gain much traction unfortunately.

The new 4th Street SE underpass cost $70M but it was of course built much wider than the older ones.

You pretty much couldn't do the Bow in Beltline, but there's lots of room for sizable buildings. There is no height limit, with density being regulated by FAR (floor area ratio) limits, save for a couple areas with shadowing restrictions.

The maximum FAR you can achieve is 12.0, primarily in the area north of 12th Avenue and along the MacLeod Trail couplet corridor. That means that if you were to build a solid block of a building that took every bit of space of a parcel of land, it could be as high as 12 storeys. However, since no one really does this, buildings can certainly end up higher. You could have 70-80 storey thin pencil tower on a large parcel.

As an example, there is an upcoming development on the north side of 10th Avenue, between 4th and 5th Streets SW. If they were to max out their FAR, they could build a development with something around 850 000 sqft (they aren't proposing that much by the way), whereas the Bow is at 1.7 million sqft.

[Jimmy Stang]

^ I promise never to refer to it as Victoria Park ever again. I honestly didn't realize that it had been wiped off of the map, so to speak.

Seriously though, thanks for the detailed reply. Lots of good info in there.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Well... we could get really creative and think of the trains following the Ring Road ROW, in theory, it is a technically doable scenario. But the cost will remain prohibitive and there is not enough economic incentive for anyone involved to do it. So, yes, the line is here to stay for a foreseeable future.

Following the Stoney ROW, would probably mean a bored tunnel between the current tracks on the west side and Beddington Trail.

Really, there's no reason at that point to follow that ROW.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Circa89

Mr.bunk.
Good sir, who is responsible for landscaping the boulevard on 130th avenue SE.
It has been completed for a decade now and it's landscaping consists of gravel and weeds.
Is this the city's responsibility or was this a contingency placed on a developer?

Arterials are constructed by adjacent developers, but it should be in the Roads department's hands by this point.

[gladaki]

Thinking of inviting mayor nenshi for fund raising event for cancer awareness. Whats procedure for this?