Bob Mckenzie: Flames could have had Nyquist and Tatar for Bouwmeester

[puckluck2]

Honestly, if anyone wants some serious comedy check out the Bouwmeester thread where he got traded. A lot of the guys bashing Feaster in this very thread were praising the deal at the time and the return. Even a couple said they didn't like Detroit's prospects at the time and the first was better than any of the Detroit prospects available but in this thread said they'd rather have Nyquist and Tatar...well of course NOW you would, but don't pretend that you knew something about Nyquist that no one else did. He was an average prospect at the time who had proved less than Sven Baertschi right now and he was getting up there in age.

Now I wasn't a huge fan of Feaster but he made several great deals that will put us forward. To deny that is rubbish. He made some risks and a lot of them paid off and some haven't and likely never will but at least bash him for the moves he made, not the moves he didn't make especially when you have the benefit of hindsight.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Well it's actually about a rumor about sin thing that happened a year ago....

Yes, that something is a trade offer for a player Feaster traded. Hence the obvious discussion about his moves.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Well considering the only deal he won before Burke came, was acquiring Cammallari, and even than we got smaller, it's kind of hard to see him finally winning one without outside input.

Keep it up, if you repeat enough times then it may become true.
You manipulate, lie about your own statements and cheery pick facts.
Your hatred of Feaster is borderline on clinical.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Well it's actually about a rumor about sin thing that happened a year ago....

Whatever this thread is about, I can't understand how the rest of you aren't as exasperatingly exhausted by its pointlessness and tedium. Jay Feaster is no longer the GM of the Calgary Flames. How is it that some of you are still bothered by what happened during his tenure, and decisions that were made months ago and that had no detectable present or long term effect?

This team is exciting and the future is promising. That is all.

[nik-]

I can't understand why people keep coming into a thread about a topic that exhausts them.

You don't have to click on every thread.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

......

This team is exciting and the future is promising. That is all.

Would that be because of Feaster's drafting and reorganization of development system?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Keep it up, if you repeat enough times then it may become true.
You manipulate, lie about your own statements and cheery pick facts.
Your hatred of Feaster is borderline on clinical.

You want to be a jerk and start attacking me instead of the subject is weak and stupid.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

You want to be a jerk and start attacking me instead of the subject is weak and stupid.

In the last few pages you made statements unsupported by facts.
You also made statements and denied them.
You have expressed an opinion based on your conviction which is admirable.
However, you conveniently made convenient assumptions in order to support your conclusion and you omitted facts in the process.
I believe you are not being objective because of your genuine anger with Feaster.

In my opinion Feaster hatred started long before he deserved to be hated.
The man did a lot of good things that he gets no credit for.
I believe he should be criticized for the things he had control of and the things he actually did wrong. There is a lot of material there too.

[Jacks]

To me there were two distinct parts to Feaster's tenure, "make the playoffs" Feaster and "rebuild" Feaster. We can argue about who's idea it was to keep trying to make the playoffs at all costs but it's clear that continuing with an aging core full of mid tier players, 2 franchise players near the end of their careers, a whole whack of NTC's, at the contract limit and cap troubles meant that he was doomed to failure to start with.

"Make the playoffs" Feaster made some good moves and some bad moves, this is of course where the majority of his mistakes happened. Mainly in his pursuit of players to play with Iginla, the quest for a #1 centre.

"Rebuild" Feaster made some good moves and some bad moves but it's hard to argue that he left the team in better shape. He got rid of a ton of bad salary, freed up contracts, brought in some good contracts and stocked the prospect cupboards. He was hardly a disaster.

[dying4acup]

Feasted would have been destroyed without getting a 1st rounder back in the Bouwmeester trade. We all know it. No matter what Tatar and Nyquist might have done this season for the flames, this was no-win for Feaster.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

Feasted would have been destroyed without getting a 1st rounder back in the Bouwmeester trade. We all know it. No matter what Tatar and Nyquist might have done this season for the flames, this was no-win for Feaster.

Could not disagree more.
NHL ready players would have been most welcome.
The prospects we got instead were pretty long shots.
Not sure the average person would have had mmuch clue who either were, but we all did Joe Who? once upon a time and that worked out OK...

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

Feasted would have been destroyed without getting a 1st rounder back in the Bouwmeester trade. We all know it. No matter what Tatar and Nyquist might have done this season for the flames, this was no-win for Feaster.

The underlying tone of the Feaster thread is summed up here, his hands were ties / he was in a no-win situation. Whether its Tampa meddling owners or following Murray Edwards mandate or Iginla controlling negotiations or cap jails, salary jails and even prospects holding him hostage, is there a GM in NHL history that gets his "hands tied" more often than Jay Feaster?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by theoforever

In the last few pages you made statements unsupported by facts.
You also made statements and denied them.
You have expressed an opinion based on your conviction which is admirable.
However, you conveniently made convenient assumptions in order to support your conclusion and you omitted facts in the process.
I believe you are not being objective because of your genuine anger with Feaster.

In my opinion Feaster hatred started long before he deserved to be hated.
The man did a lot of good things that he gets no credit for.
I believe he should be criticized for the things he had control of and the things he actually did wrong. There is a lot of material there too.

I gave my opinions and I never denied anything that I wrote. If you interpreted it that way, you should brush up on your reading comprehension.

I don't hate Feaster, he's probably a fine man. He just wasn't a very good GM. Just because I criticize someone it doesn't mean I hate them. You have a very juvenile way of looking at things.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

Better my Sig, than your "handle'

(but, I've updated it just for you)

Wow, awesome. So after years of updating your sig and moving the goalposts every time Backland proved you wrong, you're finally admitting defeat and realizing your unhealthy obsession was all wrong? Neat.

[TheDebaser]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

The Erixon trade wasn't a win. You don't give up a first round pick with two solid years of development for two seconds and a so so prospect. The first round player is better. Would you trade our current 1st for that deal today?

As said I give credit to Burke for the Smid deal. Stempniak was ho hum.

The Erixon trade proves that saying wrong. The team who gets the best return wins the trade. Believe it or not, it's possible to overpay with small pieces.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

The Erixon trade wasn't a win. You don't give up a first round pick with two solid years of development for two seconds and a so so prospect. The first round player is better.

The Erixon trade was a good deal at the time. And with hindsight, the good development of Wotherspoon/Granlund and Erixon's inability to cement himself in the NHL the deal now looks like a landslide win for us.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Russel had become a superfluous player in St. Louis and had been put on waivers for free IIRC. St. Louis pawned him off to us as we are so bad, Russel wouldn't come back to haunt them. Top teams often do this with okay players who aren't good enough for their team. In other words because we're terrible, we get the odd decent deal.

OK so this pretty much proves that you are going to not give Feaster credit for every good move and blame him relentlessly for bad moves.

If you can't even give him credit for the Russel move then really no point discussing further because it is clear your mind is made up.

The guy made good moves and bad moves. We can debate if the bad moves outweighed the good but to take such a black and white view of things seems like a...well..a waste.

[Vinny01]

I see this thread is a full on Feaster debate.

I think Burke was right, he is not the guy to lead this team in the rebuild. Feaster said it himself if the owners want a rebuild then find a new GM.

He made a fool of himself and the organization with the way he handled the RoR offer sheet, what he said about Jankowski, and the Iginla trade. The Bouwmeester and Regehr deals were pretty bad. All the talk of intellectual honesty or threatening to sell at the deadline was nothing but talk. His refusal to eat salary in deals made little sense

Having said that he did plenty of good here. He really let the scouts drive to bus when it came to drafting. 2011 looks like a fantastic draft, 2013 was solid and 2012 has some potential.

He made some nice moves. The Cammy trade was great, Russell was a nice pickup, bringing Grats back was awesome. The Smid deal was very good. Colborne and Knight were nice pickups and the Erixon trade was a winner. His best move was brining in his old buddy Hartley to coach.

Burke has inherited a dream for any GM. A ton of cap space, a good coach with full team but in, a stud prospect, several other intriguing youngsters and no brutal contracts beyond 3 years. Burke gives credit to Feaster for these moves but Burke was right the team needed to make a change

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I see this thread is a full on Feaster debate.

I think Burke was right, he is not the guy to lead this team in the rebuild. Feaster said it himself if the owners want a rebuild then find a new GM.

He made a fool of himself and the organization with the way he handled the RoR offer sheet, what he said about Jankowski, and the Iginla trade. The Bouwmeester and Regehr deals were pretty bad. All the talk of intellectual honesty or threatening to sell at the deadline was nothing but talk. His refusal to eat salary in deals made little sense

Having said that he did plenty of good here. He really let the scouts drive to bus when it came to drafting. 2011 looks like a fantastic draft, 2013 was solid and 2012 has some potential.

He made some nice moves. The Cammy trade was great, Russell was a nice pickup, bringing Grats back was awesome. The Smid deal was very good. Colborne and Knight were nice pickups and the Erixon trade was a winner. His best move was brining in his old buddy Hartley to coach.

Burke has inherited a dream for any GM. A ton of cap space, a good coach with full team but in, a stud prospect, several other intriguing youngsters and no brutal contracts beyond 3 years. Burke gives credit to Feaster for these moves but Burke was right the team needed to make a change

/thread

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Burke has inherited a dream for any GM. A ton of cap space, a good coach with full team but in, a stud prospect, several other intriguing youngsters and no brutal contracts beyond 3 years. Burke gives credit to Feaster for these moves but Burke was right the team needed to make a change

Burke inherited a decent situation but it's far from a dream situation I'd say. Cap space is pretty irrelevant at this point and while I like Monahan I see him as a piece not the franchise. Someone like O'Reilly but we still need our Mackinnon, Duchene, Landeskog, Stastny, etc. Perhaps some guys in the system could develop into that but assuming is very premature. Still a lot to prove. I see depth with our prospect base but were still missing the core IMO which is the most difficult to aquire. Not to crap on Feaster either but he traded two huge pieces to aquire two of our better prospects. (Poirier, Klimchuck) I think any GM in the league could do this when working with those kinds of assets. I personally believe Burke would have turned them into more. So while Feaster may have added some extra prospects he was really the only one in recent history who had the assets and situation to do so. I don't think this makes him a good GM. If these guys turn into quality pros then he deserves credit. Or the scouts at least.