Which non-Flames UFAs do we target?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by TheDebaser

I'll just add that Gaudreau is a top-6 talent today. I think if he can play as well as he did in his first nhl game, he can only get better next year with more coaching and some time to work on fitness. Just going off of that game in Vancouver, Gaudreau will be a force in our top 6 next year.

Add Glencross (when he shows up) and Backlund too and suddenly we have 5 2nd line players on our team.

Backlund and Ramo seem to think that this team has a shot at the playoffs. I wouldn't put money on it, but you know what? I don't think I'd bet against them either.

I'm excited about Gaudreau, but in not sure you can tell much from the first game. Lots left to see which has me in agony waiting for next season.


I could maybe see a sniff at playoff spot though

[stemit14]

What's great is that there's no rush to get gaudreau on the big club. If he has a great camp and makes the team... Awesome! But if not, he can get some valuable development in the AHL. Guys like baertschi, granlund, and Reinhart are all knocking on the door too.

[saXon]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I'm excited about Gaudreau, but in not sure you can tell much from the first game. Lots left to see which has me in agony waiting for next season.


I could maybe see a sniff at playoff spot though

A little early to be throwing out hopes of the post season. A few intangibles that need addressing first.

• one single player in Johnny Gaudreau isn't a meal ticket into the playoffs, he hasn't adopted the Flames' system play and he's very much still a lightweight. aka leg strength.
• Ramo has to stay healthy, and the Flames have no guaranteed backup to take the load if he's injured again.
• the team will need a higher caliber UFA or two to bolster the roster.
• dead weight such as Jones, one could argue Wideman, or even Galiardi would need to be shed.
• if Cammy may happen to walk, much of the Flames offense will have walked with him.

I'm sure there's more, and the shopping list is long. I don't expect the Flames to do much better next season. That key piece or two Burke seems to want to bring in to every team he builds hasn't been acquired.


The Flames work hard, but a lack of pure offensive talent may be what's holding this team back for a few more seasons. I'd temper expectations of any whiff of a playoff spot for another year or two.

[TheDebaser]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I'm excited about Gaudreau, but in not sure you can tell much from the first game. Lots left to see which has me in agony waiting for next season.


I could maybe see a sniff at playoff spot though

I'm kind of trying to figure it out myself.

On the one hand, it's not very much to go off of. On the other hand...

Look, if I hear someone sing once or twice, I can pretty much tell if they are talented or not. If someone can sing, I can confidently say that yeah, that guy can sing pretty well. Why doesn't this apply to sports? If someone can play a damn good game of hockey, why shouldn't I feel comfortable calling them a damn good hockey player? Especially if a player hasn't been coached in the system and is learning to adjust to the nhl on the fly but can still be generating turnovers and scoring chances like a seasoned pro?

I try not to be too big of a homer most of the time, but I saw a damn good nhl player play the Canucks, and I only have reason to believe he'll get better. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think Gaudreau will ever lace them up for the heat.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by TheDebaser

Look, if I hear someone sing once or twice, I can pretty much tell if they are talented or not. If someone can sing, I can confidently say that yeah, that guy can sing pretty well. Why doesn't this apply to sports? If someone can play a damn good game of hockey, why shouldn't I feel comfortable calling them a damn good hockey player?

Answer: Sam Gagner

[Caged Great]

We just have to be patient. Usually the fastest proper rebuilds take 4-5 years, some more than that. We just finished year 1.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

We just have to be patient. Usually the fastest proper rebuilds take 4-5 years, some more than that. We just finished year 1.

This. While it's great & refreshing to have people genuinely believe that we have a shot at a wildcard next season, we'd have to face the possibility of having this rebuild be more of a retool. That's not how you build a contender. It's the difference between sneaking into the playoffs to make an unceremonious first round exit in 6 games or being a serious threat to challenge for Stanley.

The rebuild will need patience; Burke has a team in a far better situation contract/cap wise than he did with Toronto and remarkably less pressure from the Calgarian fanbase. It would surprise me to have him go for a quick retool just for the sake of making it a playoff year. He can say playoffs all he want; I just don't expect him to make the GM moves accordingly.

So far:

Year 1: 4th last

My realistic expectations for the future:

Year 2: 6th-7th last
Year 3: Barely miss the playoffs

By year 4 I'd start expecting real results.

Year 4: Make playoffs to surprise a higher seed in 1st round but fail to go to conference final
Year 5 Onwards: SC contender

[Critter4223]

Originally Posted by TheDebaser

I'll just add that Gaudreau is a top-6 talent today. I think if he can play as well as he did in his first nhl game, he can only get better next year with more coaching and some time to work on fitness. Just going off of that game in Vancouver, Gaudreau will be a force in our top 6 next year.

Add Glencross (when he shows up) and Backlund too and suddenly we have 5 2nd line players on our team.

Backlund and Ramo seem to think that this team has a shot at the playoffs. I wouldn't put money on it, but you know what? I don't think I'd bet against them either.

You've lost it if you really believe that what you seen in 1 nhl game has shown enough to call a guy a top 6 forward.

[Critter4223]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

This. While it's great & refreshing to have people genuinely believe that we have a shot at a wildcard next season, we'd have to face the possibility of having this rebuild be more of a retool. That's not how you build a contender. It's the difference between sneaking into the playoffs to make an unceremonious first round exit in 6 games or being a serious threat to challenge for Stanley.

The rebuild will need patience; Burke has a team in a far better situation contract/cap wise than he did with Toronto and remarkably less pressure from the Calgarian fanbase. It would surprise me to have him go for a quick retool just for the sake of making it a playoff year. He can say playoffs all he want; I just don't expect him to make the GM moves accordingly.

So far:

Year 1: 4th last

My realistic expectations for the future:

Year 2: 6th-7th last
Year 3: Barely miss the playoffs

By year 4 I'd start expecting real results.

Year 4: Make playoffs to surprise a higher seed in 1st round but fail to go to conference final
Year 5 Onwards: SC contender

I'd say year 2 were bottom 3 with buffalo and Edmonton
year 3 bottom 7
Year 4 bottom 10
Year 5 wild card

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Critter4223

You've lost it if you really believe that what you seen in 1 nhl game has shown enough to call a guy a top 6 forward.

He was arguably one of the best, if not the undisputed best, players on the ice for Calgary in that final game. And that was his first game in the NHL. He has an entire offseason to work on his game - probably go to the worlds and maybe some strength/conditioning over the summer to make an impact at camp.

If not for his decision to return to Boston College last summer, I strongly feel he would've been in our top six with Monahan and Colborne this season, maybe even made the team out of camp. After all Monahan-Gaudreau-BVB was by far the best line at development camp.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Critter4223

You've lost it if you really believe that what you seen in 1 nhl game has shown enough to call a guy a top 6 forward.

Did you not see him play? He was arguably the best forward that game, which is why Hartley gave him more playing time than we all expected.

He is NHL ready. Won't be surprised if he puts up a point per game in that 9 game tryout in the NHL like Sean did.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Critter4223

I'd say year 2 were bottom 3 with buffalo and Edmonton
year 3 bottom 7
Year 4 bottom 10
Year 5 wild card

You're underestimating our team a whole lot. We will make the playoffs in either the 2016 or 2017 playoffs.

[Caged Great]

Ottawa is a good example of trying to rush when you're not ready. They were in year 2 of their rebuild and they surprisingly made the playoffs, mainly due to the east being garbage. They then beat a tiny Montreal squad in round one.

Then because they felt like "okay rebuild is over" they went out and traded Jakob Silfverberg, Stefan Noesen, and their 1st for Bobby Ryan. That would be the equivalent of us trading Granlund + Klimchuk + 1st. Ryan basically only replaced the offense lost by having Alfredsson leave and only had about 20 more points than Silfverberg this year.

Now the Sens are without someone like Ritchie/Kapanen/Nylander/Ehlers etc, plus the two good young kids and have kneecapped their own rebuild. Now in order to put things back on track properly they are going to have to do one of two things. One, try and add through free agency/trade, which will be futile as they won't ever get good enough to do any real damage. Or two, which is blow it all up and trade off everything that isn't stapled down. That means instead of a 5 year rebuild, the sens are looking more at an 8-10 year rebuild. If they try to go for it now, it'll probably be 15 years before they are relevant again.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Answer: Sam Gagner

Terrible comparison. Gagner has shown consistently over the last 5 years exactly what he is. One awesome game does not change that.

Originally Posted by Critter4223

You've lost it if you really believe that what you seen in 1 nhl game has shown enough to call a guy a top 6 forward.

If it were just one game, I would totally agree. But it's not just that.

I have seen Gaudreau play at least 30 or 40 times over the last 3 years. He consistently (literally every game) does things that separate him as a very special talent.

There is no question that Gaudreau has enough talent to be in the top 6, the only question was: is he quick enough, or strong enough to be effective in the NHL today? Is he ready yet?

And watching that game, it was clearly evident that the answer is yes. His quickness is already at a level to be effective. As is his hockey IQ.

I already knew before that game that he had enough talent. I wanted to see that talent and hockey IQ against NHL defensemen.

I saw. And I am 100% convinced.

He sees the game so well. He goes to the right areas. He takes pucks away from people, and it follows him around. He makes his line-mates better. He obviously still needs to get stronger. But he is ready. And I am very confident that he will be a special player - sooner rather than later.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Ottawa is a good example of trying to rush when you're not ready. They were in year 2 of their rebuild and they surprisingly made the playoffs, mainly due to the east being garbage. They then beat a tiny Montreal squad in round one.

Then because they felt like "okay rebuild is over" they went out and traded Jakob Silfverberg, Stefan Noesen, and their 1st for Bobby Ryan. That would be the equivalent of us trading Granlund + Klimchuk + 1st. Ryan basically only replaced the offense lost by having Alfredsson leave and only had about 20 more points than Silfverberg this year.

Now the Sens are without someone like Ritchie/Kapanen/Nylander/Ehlers etc, plus the two good young kids and have kneecapped their own rebuild. Now in order to put things back on track properly they are going to have to do one of two things. One, try and add through free agency/trade, which will be futile as they won't ever get good enough to do any real damage. Or two, which is blow it all up and trade off everything that isn't stapled down. That means instead of a 5 year rebuild, the sens are looking more at an 8-10 year rebuild. If they try to go for it now, it'll probably be 15 years before they are relevant again.

I agree. The worst thing they could do is rush the rebuild and think that they are something they are not.

Stick to the plan and be patient. If they find success and move up a few spots in the standings - great.

But remain patient and continue to acquire and develop more young players (through the draft).

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Terrible comparison. Gagner has shown consistently over the last 5 years exactly what he is. One awesome game does not change that.

If it were just one game, I would totally agree. But it's not just that.

I have seen Gaudreau play at least 30 or 40 times over the last 3 years. He consistently (literally every game) does things that separate him as a very special talent.

The question was very specifically about viewing a player for one game and how it would be similar to hearing someone sing once. I was making the point that one viewing in hockey isn't enough. I wasn't comparing anything else

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

The question was very specifically about viewing a player for one game and how it would be similar to hearing someone sing once. I was making the point that one viewing in hockey isn't enough. I wasn't comparing anything else

ok fair enough.

[dino7c]

there is not set amount of times a "proper rebuild" takes not sure why people get so hung up on that. I'm not saying trade prospects/picks for older vets but improve the team when you can and don't worry about being a contender in year X or whatever. Year X may never come.

This year was year X for Oilers fans

[4oh3]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Wow, did that Berra trade make you really think that Burke has supernatural trading powers? Ridiculous return for Byron's rights.

Totally agree man, cam wards a good goalie some of the trade offers I've seen for him are obseen

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

This. While it's great & refreshing to have people genuinely believe that we have a shot at a wildcard next season, we'd have to face the possibility of having this rebuild be more of a retool. That's not how you build a contender. It's the difference between sneaking into the playoffs to make an unceremonious first round exit in 6 games or being a serious threat to challenge for Stanley.

The rebuild will need patience; Burke has a team in a far better situation contract/cap wise than he did with Toronto and remarkably less pressure from the Calgarian fanbase. It would surprise me to have him go for a quick retool just for the sake of making it a playoff year. He can say playoffs all he want; I just don't expect him to make the GM moves accordingly.

So far:

Year 1: 4th last

My realistic expectations for the future:

Year 2: 6th-7th last
Year 3: Barely miss the playoffs

By year 4 I'd start expecting real results.

Year 4: Make playoffs to surprise a higher seed in 1st round but fail to go to conference final
Year 5 Onwards: SC contender

Honest question, but I'm curious how you define a retool here, and the difference then with a rebuild? After all, with Jarome, Bouwmeester, and Kipper gone there isn't much left. With Cammalleri probably leaving what can be done to make this a "retool" rather than rebuild?