Which non-Flames UFAs do we target?

[Wolfman]

Why is everyone so hot for Reimer? The guy was given every opportunity be the starter in Toronto and he blew it. He's had many chances in Toronto take the job and can't get it. Why do we want someone like that, when Ramo had a pretty good season with arguably a worse team in front of him. I know the Flames defense is better.

Pass on Reimer.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Can't see TB re-signing Callahan if they make a first round exit especially if it's a sweep. If Cammy walks that's a lot of cap hit gone when we're already having trouble making the floor. I'd back the truck up to Callahan's house if he decides to try out UFA.

Ditto!

[The Fonz]

Callahan turned down 6m x 6yrs from the Rangers, IIRC.

So it'd probably take a 7m x 6yrs offer from us to get him..... Can't be doing that.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Why is everyone so hot for Reimer? The guy was given every opportunity be the starter in Toronto and he blew it. He's had many chances in Toronto take the job and can't get it. Why do we want someone like that, when Ramo had a pretty good season with arguably a worse team in front of him. I know the Flames defense is better.

Pass on Reimer.

Everyone? really? most ppl said pass on him.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dino7c

well obviously that would be a absolute disaster but you have to weigh the odds...my feeling is that the Flames will be better than people think so the value of the pick is greater now than it will ever be.

obviously it would takes stones to do it, realize I'm talking about getting a proven, young, top end guy

Instead of just saying over and over again that getting a great player like Johansen would be awesome, tell us what you think it would take to get him. What price would it take in order for Columbus to not match?

The problem with offer sheets is that you have to overpay AND you have to give up compensation.

Certainly, the Flames are in a position where they can afford to overpay. The question is: what would the compensation be?

Keep two things in mind: the players we would be getting in the draft (or foregoing) are FREE. In other words, we are going to get better. Period. So explain why we would take the risk.

Also, while an argument can certainly be made that the Flames might be better this year, it is by no means a certainty. In fact, I think it is unlikely.

What if Giordano were injured for an extended period of time? Or Ramo? Or even Hudler?

If the Flames ended up drafting top 3 in what could become the strongest draft ever, but gave up that pick for an offer sheet, my head would explode.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Callahan turned down 6m x 6yrs from the Rangers, IIRC.

So it'd probably take a 7m x 6yrs offer from us to get him..... Can't be doing that.

I think the deal Callahan turned down was 6 x 5.5M.

...which even at that, for a player who is already trending down and has never scored more than 54 pts (which was his only 50+ point season), is awful.

He's 29 years old.

I want no part of Callahan via free agency. Overpaying for "character" guys like that is a bad, bad way to build a team (see: Clarkson, David).

When we do adventure into the free agent pool, do it the way Chicago did it.

If you're going to pay big, pay big for the high-end, elite players. Otherwise, sign smart, short term deals with veteran guys who fill specific roles on your bottom 2 lines/bottom 3 d-men.

There's a pile of guys like Callahan who have signed as free agents over the last handful of years, and they're never worth it. Ryan Clowe, Ryan Malone, David Clarkson. All bad contracts. Callahan will be another.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Everyone? really? most ppl said pass on him.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Instead of just saying over and over again that getting a great player like Johansen would be awesome, tell us what you think it would take to get him. What price would it take in order for Columbus to not match?

The problem with offer sheets is that you have to overpay AND you have to give up compensation.

Certainly, the Flames are in a position where they can afford to overpay. The question is: what would the compensation be?

Keep two things in mind: the players we would be getting in the draft (or foregoing) are FREE. In other words, we are going to get better. Period. So explain why we would take the risk.

Also, while an argument can certainly be made that the Flames might be better this year, it is by no means a certainty. In fact, I think it is unlikely.

What if Giordano were injured for an extended period of time? Or Ramo? Or even Hudler?

If the Flames ended up drafting top 3 in what could become the strongest draft ever, but gave up that pick for an offer sheet, my head would explode.

never said that one time let alone many...never mentioned Johansen even one time. I said consider trading the pick if the return is massive. I highly doubt the Flames will be drafting top 3. Considering they never have in franchise history I think its a pretty safe bet. Not to mention the usual suspects are gonna be tanking hard, more than ever.

lol 2 of the 3 guys you mentioned were injured for long stretches this season

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by dino7c

never said that one time let alone many...never mentioned Johansen even one time. I said consider trading the pick if the return is massive. I highly doubt the Flames will be drafting top 3. Considering they never have in franchise history I think its a pretty safe bet. Not to mention the usual suspects are gonna be tanking hard, more than ever.

lol 2 of the 3 guys you mentioned were injured for long stretches this season

Well the Flames hadn't picked in the top 5 until this year so not hard to imagine they could be picking top 3 next year.

The bad teams will be tanking hard but lets look at them.

-Buffalo will be bad
-Florida has been given the green light to spend and they're paying a lot for Luongo and they want to use him.
-Edmonton, they're crap but have some talent, they did improve their tending so one should expect them to be better.
-Islanders, healthy Tavares and more youth coming. They need a tender and there are some available this off-season.
-Vancouver, still have lots talent. I don't see them out tanking us.
-Carolina iill be bad next year.

Other teams should not be in top 3 conversation imho.

The Flames should be a bad team next year.
-Cammi is still a question mark.
-Can Backlund stay healthy and continue his progression?
-Monahan, sophomore jinx?
-Giordano, was this a sign of things to come or a blip on the radar?
-Ramo, played 40 games, can he play a starters role at a consistent level?

If all those questions are answered in a good way then this team can challenge for a playoff spot otherwise a top 3 pick is not out of question.

[dino7c]

nobody has to agree with me its just an opinion...I think the odds of a top 3 pick are pretty low and 1st overall is probably like 2% when you factor in the lottery. I mean the team was almost 30 points up on last this year and even if you finish dead last which is very unlikely there is still a 75% chance you don't get #1

I also have a strong feeling Burke will be adding proven talent to the team

top three pick is possible but I doubt it, all I'm saying is that I would consider moving it for a proven young top end player and I'm gonna leave it at that.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by maxpower29

I am almost certain Reimer will be a Flame this summer. He is much better then people like to think as well, and with the likely price a 2nd round pick he is totally worth it

Don't know why you'd pay a 2nd for Reimer when you could have just had similar guys like Scrivens for a 4th at the deadline. Non-elite goalies don't generate much return from non-crazy teams.

Burke has never really gone crazy after goalies either... most of his teams have had issues with goalies (Vancouver with Cloutier, etc; Toronto with Toskala, etc)

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by dino7c

nobody has to agree with me its just an opinion...I think the odds of a top 3 pick are pretty low and 1st overall is probably like 2% when you factor in the lottery. I mean the team was almost 30 points up on last this year and even if you finish dead last which is very unlikely there is still a 75% chance you don't get #1

I also have a strong feeling Burke will be adding proven talent to the team

top three pick is possible but I doubt it, all I'm saying is that I would consider moving it for a proven young top end player and I'm gonna leave it at that.

To get anywhere near a spot where Columbus wouldn't match you'd have to be up in the 2015 1st, 2nd, 3rd round pick plus 2106 1st or four straight first round picks.

Its not just going to take the one first rounder to get these guys.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by dino7c

nobody has to agree with me its just an opinion...I think the odds of a top 3 pick are pretty low and 1st overall is probably like 2% when you factor in the lottery.

.....the Flames could improve and finish 7th last next season, and the odds of getting the #1 is 4.7%.

Teams worse than us next year:
- Buffalo
- Edmonton
- Carolina

I think we finish next season right around where we finished this year, 4th. That gives us a 10.7% chance at #1, and finishing bottom 3 would not surprise me at all.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

.....the Flames could improve and finish 7th last next season, and the odds of getting the #1 is 4.7%.

Teams worse than us next year:
- Buffalo
- Edmonton
- Carolina

I think we finish next season right around where we finished this year, 4th. That gives us a 10.7% chance at #1, and finishing bottom 3 would not surprise me at all.

I hate to say it in Edmonton's case...but I think that's far from a given.

Carolina also has some good pieces in place, alongside a fair bit of youth coming up and a shift in organizational direction could make a difference (Ron Francis set to take over as GM, and an awful coach in Muller being let go)

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I hate to say it in Edmonton's case...but I think that's far from a given.

Carolina also has some good pieces in place, alongside a fair bit of youth coming up and a shift in organizational direction could make a difference (Ron Francis set to take over as GM, and an awful coach in Muller being let go)

That would be fine with me.

I have already accepted 1 more season of being a bottom feeder, unfortunately. The 2015/16 season is when I want to see this team take the big step forward.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dino7c

never said that one time let alone many...never mentioned Johansen even one time. I said consider trading the pick if the return is massive. I highly doubt the Flames will be drafting top 3. Considering they never have in franchise history I think its a pretty safe bet. Not to mention the usual suspects are gonna be tanking hard, more than ever.

lol 2 of the 3 guys you mentioned were injured for long stretches this season

My mistake - you mentioned offer sheet, then someone else suggested Johansen among others, then you continued to support the idea in general.

You still haven't shown any useful or realistic examples, you simply argue that we have little chance of a top 3 pick.

Yes, if you finish last you only have a 25% chance of the top pick. That's a good thing for Flames fans because we're unlikely to finish last. However, the chances of us finishing 2nd through 5th last are very, very real.

And that would mean an 18.8%, 14.2%, 10.7%, or 8.1% chance respectively. In order to have the 2% chance you referred to, we would need to finish 10th last or higher. Could happen, but it's wishful thinking IMO.

As for 2 of those 3 guys being out for lengthy periods, that was nothing. Injuries can be worse. Also, with a couple trades at the deadline, plus a couple key injuries, crap can happen.

I don't wish for the team to be bad either, and I am always optimistic. But it is simple risk management - no way the team should move that pick (unless they get a completely ridiculous overpayment back). The organization simply isn't far enough along in the rebuild to risk it.

Edit: also, this draft is not a one-hit wonder. There are as many as 5 guys that could be in the very elite pick category. It is shaping up to be a wicked draft. Dismissing the odds of picking first as elusive is completely missing the point.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Edit: also, this draft is not a one-hit wonder. There are as many as 5 guys that could be in the very elite pick category. It is shaping up to be a wicked draft. Dismissing the odds of picking first as elusive is completely missing the point.

Or maybe its just the pre-draft hype building up to give you that impression. This has been considered a mediocre draft for a couple of years and doesn't appear to have improved. The bloggers are doing a great job building up hype over players that a year ago few had heard of. I think the reason you believe there are as many as 5 elite players in this draft is because of the repetition factor. Time will tell how good this draft is, but it is unlikely you get 5 elite talents out of this draft. Hopefully for the Flames, drafting at #4, your projection is right.

[moon]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Not even for Johansen? One who is really starting to prove himself as a top NHLer?

Colombus aren't giving up Johansen no matter what the contract.

[Gaskal]

We're winning the lotto next year, book it.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Don't know why you'd pay a 2nd for Reimer when you could have just had similar guys like Scrivens for a 4th at the deadline. Non-elite goalies don't generate much return from non-crazy teams.

Burke has never really gone crazy after goalies either... most of his teams have had issues with goalies (Vancouver with Cloutier, etc; Toronto with Toskala, etc)

I would be ok with Reimer coming in, he is a solid goalie that can share duties with Ramo and I highly doubt he will even cost a 2nd, more like a 4th.