[News] Burke says he is unlikely to trade up... hasn't watched Bennett

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by AC

But watching several people on CP lose their minds when we don't take the "consensus" top available pick is such a joy.

I think Monahan may have been the first time it didn't really happen .

The draft thread from last year when we picked Poirier over Shinkarik is hilarious.

Obviously neither are near the NHL yet and it hasn't been a year since that draft but the outrage over picking Poirier over a guy they just heard about 5 minutes prior summed up the faux draft outrage perfectly.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Lets look at Mackenzie rankings from 2010 (which are pretty much compilation of other sources/scouts).

2010
1. Taylor Hall - Stays there, good player
2. Tyler Seguin - Stays there, good player
3. Erik Gudbransson - Stays there, still trying to figure it out
4. Brandon Gormely - Fell to 13th, still trying to figure it out
5. Cam Fowler - Fell but a solid player
6. Ryan Johansen - moved up, great breakout year
7. Nino - moved up, looked good last year
8. Brett Connolly - moved up, not a good move up
9. Jack Campbell - fell couple spots, not looking good
10. Jeff Skinner - moved up, good player

So from Mackenzie ranking in 2010
-3 players fell
-4 moved up, besides Connolly it looks like a smart decision by those teams.

Simple example of scouts making their picks on their viewing not based on what the popular rankings say. So it's ok to deviate from the plan and pick who you think is the best player.

I don't remember that draft but was there any clear divisions like there are this year and was last year?

For all the talk about moving last year there was a top 3 then a next 3 and those guys went in the top 6.

Yes Barkov moved from the "next 3" into the top and Jones fell out a spot but for the most part the guys went about where they were expected.

This year again there seems to be a top 3 and then next 2 so I could see movement with how those 5 go but it would be pretty surprising to see those top 5 not go in the first 5 picks.

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by AC

Pretty much. It would have been interesting to see the reactions had both been available at our pick.

I bet there would have been a few as usual raging out that we passed on Lindholm.

This. The fact is, when your arent taking #1, a lot of the time, there are several prospects that may be the "BPA". And often, some players flourish on certain teams, and seem to "bust" on other ones. Theres a lot of circumstance that factors into the mix, and at the end of the day, its impossible to know whether the guy we get is gonna find success in calgary.

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

The draft thread from last year when we picked Poirier over Shinkarik is hilarious.

Obviously neither are near the NHL yet and it hasn't been a year since that draft but the outrage over picking Poirier over a guy they just heard about 5 minutes prior summed up the faux draft outrage perfectly.

I'll never understand why anyone would prefer Shinkarik over Poirier or even want him as a prospect.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by moon

I don't remember that draft but was there any clear divisions like there are this year and was last year?

For all the talk about moving last year there was a top 3 then a next 3 and those guys went in the top 6.

Yes Barkov moved from the "next 3" into the top and Jones fell out a spot but for the most part the guys went about where they were expected.

This year again there seems to be a top 3 and then next 2 so I could see movement with how those 5 go but it would be pretty surprising to see those top 5 not go in the first 5 picks.

It was Taylor vs Tyler and then the 3 dman as far as I remember.

[moon]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

I'll never understand why anyone would prefer Shinkarik over Poirier or even want him as a prospect.

Even want him as a prospect?

He was a top 20 ranked guy by most scouting services (if not all), was a late cut for Team Canada WJHC team, has scored 91 points and 49 goals in the WHL.

Liking Poirier better is fine but to say you wouldn't want him as a prospect is a joke.

The demonization of Shinkaruk on this site by many for no reason is pathetic.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

I'll never understand why anyone would prefer Shinkarik over Poirier or even want him as a prospect.

The same reason someone would call picking a player ranked 7th or 8th an 'epic disaster'. Some just have no clue and/or are prone to massive hyperbole.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by moon

I don't remember that draft but was there any clear divisions like there are this year and was last year?

For all the talk about moving last year there was a top 3 then a next 3 and those guys went in the top 6.

Yes Barkov moved from the "next 3" into the top and Jones fell out a spot but for the most part the guys went about where they were expected.

This year again there seems to be a top 3 and then next 2 so I could see movement with how those 5 go but it would be pretty surprising to see those top 5 not go in the first 5 picks.

There are always divisions, in every draft, every year. The thing with drafting teenagers is that those divisions get altered quite a bit moving forward.

I would say the first division in the 2014 draft is at after five. Bennett, Reinhart, Draisaitl, Ekblad then Dal Colle. I have no idea where this "top 3" division talk came from, it seems like only after the Flames landed 4th did talk of the top 3 guys become the elite of the draft started. Draisaitl has been in that group for some time now.

I hesitate to put Dal Colle in that group only because he's a winger and doesn't play the middle but he certainly has the talent to be there.

Three or four years from now that group will change, one guy will drop off some how, maybe a team surprises and takes someone off the imaginary "board" that wasn't expected to go early. Maybe Bennett can't handle playing center and gets converted to wing and doesn't look so hot anymore. Lots of possibilities.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

It was Taylor vs Tyler and then the 3 dman as far as I remember.

Yep I remember obviously Taylor vs. Tyler couldn't remember how it went after that.

I think after you get past the top 2-5 guys that is usually when the real movement happens.

Obviously in the above draft it was after the top 3 that things went crazy.

[djsFlames]

Just cause Shinkaruk is a Canuck prospect now, and was rumoured to not be interested in the Flames, doesn't mean he won't find his way to the NHL, nor isn't in the same league as Poirier. We simply don't know that yet. While I personally prefer Poirier now, it doesn't mean I'm going to completely dismiss Shinkaruk's potential (as much as none of us here really want him to succeed).

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by moon

Even want him as a prospect?

He was a top 20 ranked guy by most scouting services (if not all), was a late cut for Team Canada WJHC team, has scored 91 points and 49 goals in the WHL.

Liking Poirier better is fine but to say you wouldn't want him as a prospect is a joke.

The demonization of Shinkaruk on this site by many for no reason is pathetic.

You've never met Hunter then.

Never said he wasnt skilled, but i do not want him on my team.

[moon]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

There are always divisions, in every draft, every year. The thing with drafting teenagers is that those divisions get altered quite a bit moving forward.

I would say the first division in the 2014 draft is at after five. Bennett, Reinhart, Draisaitl, Ekblad then Dal Colle. I have no idea where this "top 3" division talk came from, it seems like only after the Flames landed 4th did talk of the top 3 guys become the elite of the draft started. Draisaitl has been in that group for some time now.

I hesitate to put Dal Colle in that group only because he's a winger and doesn't play the middle but he certainly has the talent to be there.

Three or four years from now that group will change, one guy will drop off some how, maybe a team surprises and takes someone off the imaginary "board" that wasn't expected to go early. Maybe Bennett can't handle playing center and gets converted to wing and doesn't look so hot anymore. Lots of possibilities.

I have seen Ekblad, Reinhart, Bennett ranked above the others more consistently than any other. That happened long before the Flames got there pick and seems pretty clear to me.

It seems only after a rumour of Edmonton possibly wanting Draisaitl that he moved into the talk with those other 3 guys.

I would say there is a clear top 3 guys and then Draisaitl and Dal Colle but some team may be tricked into going with Draisaitl because of falling in lvoe with size over talent.

[moon]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

You've never met Hunter then.

Never said he wasnt skilled, but i do not want him on my team.

Nope but plenty of people that have met with him multiple times ranked him very high and see him as a valuable player.

Considering the talent he has shown over his 4 years in junior he would have to be about the worst individual in hockey to come close to not wanting him at all.

Maybe he is and he tricked all those others and you are the one who knows best but I tend to doubt that.

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by moon

Nope but plenty of people that have met with him multiple times ranked him very high and see him as a valuable player.

Considering the talent he has shown over his 4 years in junior he would have to be about the worst individual in hockey to come close to not wanting him at all.

Maybe he is and he tricked all those others and you are the one who knows best but I tend to doubt that.

You're so dramatic moon. Kid fell to 28? for some reason. So perhaps he didnt "trick" NHL GM's and scouts who make their living analyzing talent. Most rankings have a heavy weight awarded to points/stats, but as we all know when it comes to building a team, a lot of time, character is a deciding factor.

[moon]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

You're so dramatic moon. Kid fell to 28? for some reason. So perhaps he didnt "trick" NHL GM's and scouts who make their living analyzing talent. Most rankings have a heavy weight awarded to points/stats, but as we all know when it comes to building a team, a lot of time, character is a deciding factor.

He was also a late cut to the WJHC.

You don't think those guys care about attitude and team building? You don't think those guys did research about what kind of kid he was and talked to him?

I am sure he does have attitude but we are talking about him having such an attitude that you wouldn't want him in your organiztion at all despite him having elite offensive skills. There is a huge difference between those two things.

[Zevo]

If I remember correctly, Shinkaruk interviewed horribly and teams dropped him down on their lists. Kind of points toward possible character issues.

[PeteMoss]

Internet Forum Draft Timeline

1) Get irrationally attached to players they've never seen based on rankings made by people who don't have NHL jobs and likely see very few of these guys live outside of their home region.

2) Go crazy if a team jumps off the board on a player

3) Usually the same day of the draft but at least within 2-3 days, talk themselves into the pick and jump on board (see Poirier last year)

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Internet Forum Draft Timeline

1) Get irrationally attached to players they've never seen based on rankings made by people who don't have NHL jobs and likely see very few of these guys live outside of their home region.

2) Go crazy if a team jumps off the board on a player

3) Usually the same day of the draft but at least within 2-3 days, talk themselves into the pick and jump on board (see Poirier last year)

It is our lot in life.

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by moon

He was also a late cut to the WJHC.

You don't think those guys care about attitude and team building? You don't think those guys did research about what kind of kid he was and talked to him?

I am sure he does have attitude but we are talking about him having such an attitude that you wouldn't want him in your organiztion at all despite him having elite offensive skills. There is a huge difference between those two things.

I actually dont get your argument here. He was ranked top 10(ish), but still failed to be drafted top 25, and then later got cut for the WJHC. Perhaps he was cut because team canada realized despite his elite skill that he had character issues that out weigh the ability.

I'd rather Klimchuk or Poirier over him. Or anyone drafted in the first round. Sure, take him in the second if hes there, but if he is, even with that elite offensive skill, theres a reason.

[djsFlames]

Are you talking about people on here making up their own 'tiers' or lists based on getting out to a game or two, or the professional scouting services which provide lists year after year? Because if you're talking about the latter, pretty sure they get out to see each and every one of these kids (especially those in the top 15) a lot more than you think they do.