Bob Mckenzie: Flames could have had Nyquist and Tatar for Bouwmeester

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Cundari and Berra were very underwhelming pieces form that trade (and the trade was underwhelming). The obvious focus was the 1st round pick (Poirier).

Yes, but there was a pick coming back in the Detriot deal (2nd)..... is how much of a difference is a 1st and 2nd rounder is. What was the drop off last year in a deep draft, deep till 60? I think its worth noting where the drop off is.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Yes, but there was a pick coming back in the Detriot deal (2nd)..... is how much of a difference is a 1st and 2nd rounder is. What was the drop off last year in a deep draft, deep till 60? I think its worth noting where the drop off is.

I didn't see mention of a pick in the tweets, were you able to listen to the interview?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

But its not what the rumours are. If what McKenzie says is correct, its both and a 2nd.

Trade rumours can be like fishing. The more time passes, the larger the fish becomes as you re-tell the epic struggle to land it.

Both of those guys and a 2nd for Bouwmeester? Can't see Detroit doing that, even accounting for the hindsight effect. The original rumour of one plus a 2nd is far more plausible. In retrospect, it may still have been the better deal though. That depends on what Porier ultimately does.

[IgiTang]

Please let this rumour and thread die. I can't look at it anymore.

Every time I refresh CP... There it is...

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Cundari and Berra were very underwhelming pieces form that trade (and the trade was underwhelming). The obvious focus was the 1st round pick (Poirier).

Nyquist was a good NHL prospect, Tatar was a good NHL prospect...that is what you're hoping the first round pick turns into...and you could have gotten two of them.

[1991 Canadian]

Am I the only the one that finds it a bit unfair to judge this trade before Poirier even makes it out of junior and we use the 2nd round draft pick we got for Berra?

I mean you guys are comparing 23 and 24 year old players to a 19 year old and TBA 18 year old.

If we are going to play the hindsight game, can we at least 2-3 years to see what our actual return got us?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I didn't see mention of a pick in the tweets, were you able to listen to the interview?

I thought it was in the origanal post, but I guess it wasn't. My bad..... I guess the 2nd was part of the last year rumour.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah it is hard to say.

4 years from now Poirier + Whoever we draft in the 2nd could be better hockey players than Nyquist & Tatar who would have been overkill as small LWs in our organization.

It hurts now but could look fine in 4 years.

I have a feeling if Feaster would have accepted this last year he would have got torn apart by some for building a team of "smurfs" and not being able to get a 1st rounder.

I agree - that trade would not have come across as a home-run for the Flames, especially after the TSN panel (including McKenzie) stating that the return for Bouwmeester will be better.

I can see some of the comments now (and some might have been from myself!).

No first round pick!!
What is with Feaster's obsession with midgets!!
3 more controlled years, and they will walk away for nothing before the Flames can even compete!!

Hindsight is always 20/20. More time can make this trade a bit more even.

[mikephoen]

The biggest problem I have with the Bouw trade was Cundari. The first in a deep draft was obviously huge. Berra was worth a shot and turned into a 2nd, so that's pretty good value. But Cundari is a smallish tweener Dman that is worth virtually nothing. Cundari should have been something else, something with a lot more potential. Even a 3rd would have been fine, but a 2nd or better prospect would have been best. And we should have got a bonus if Bouw resigned with them as well. Something like another 2nd would have been fair and is often included when a UFA star moves.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

But its not what the rumours are. If what McKenzie says is correct, its both and a 2nd.

The question then isn't just Porier vs Nyquest/Tatar, its probably closer to Nyquest+Tartar vs Cundari+Berra, and how much the difference is between the 1st and 2nd rounder. Cundari and Berras age pretty much match up to Nyquest and Tartars age, so I don't think your argument about age is valid here in comparing with Porier.

That's not what Mackenzie said

[SuperMatt18]

Yeah Poirier + 2nd could end up being equal or better than Tatar + Nyquist.

But right now this isn't great.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by 1991 Canadian

Am I the only the one that finds it a bit unfair to judge this trade before Poirier even makes it out of junior and we use the 2nd round draft pick we got for Berra?

I mean you guys are comparing 23 and 24 year old players to a 19 year old and TBA 18 year old.

If we are going to play the hindsight game, can we at least 2-3 years to see what our actual return got us?

We'd be jumping for joy if either Poirier or the 2nd rounder becomes Tatar let alone Nyquist... so no its not too early.

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by icecube

Don't defend that moron Feaster or whomever helped make this call.



Nyquist and Tatar was a better return than what we got before the ability of hindsight. Anyone who follows prospects with even a slight interest could tell you that. I'm not saying everyone could predict Nyquist's huge breakout, but he was a sure bet top six forward and Tatar is a Damn good bet to be one himself.



The Flames deserve every bit of ridicule thrown at them today.

So quick to judge without knowing all of the facts.

[Robbob]

I don't think the Flames were ready to accept players aged 24-25 not even in the first year of the rebuild. In a vacuum it looks good but would the flames be better off long term if they took that deal? What we got was still underwhelming but the first pick (Poirier) and now the second for Berra may be more then magic beans in a couple years. What is frustrating is that if Feaster retained salary he probably could have received more from STL.

[saXon]

Shoulda woulda coulda. I could have been a millionaire too, I just chose the wrong numbers.

Flames have moved on. So have I.

[PeteMoss]

Starting to be convinced we could hear that we could have gotten Crosby from Pittsburgh and some posters would still be defending the Blues trade.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I don't think the Flames were ready to accept players aged 24-25 not even in the first year of the rebuild. In a vacuum it looks good but would the flames be better off long term if they took that deal? What we got was still underwhelming but the first pick (Poirier) and now the second for Berra may be more then magic beans in a couple years. What is frustrating is that if Feaster retained salary he probably could have received more from STL.

Didn't Feaster himself identity the mid 20's as an organizational gap?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

We'd be jumping for joy if either Poirier or the 2nd rounder becomes Tatar let alone Nyquist... so no its not too early.

I, for one, will not be jumping for joy if Poirier becomes Tatar

I think you might suffer from other-team's-players-are-better-than-ours syndrome

[trackercowe]

Ugh, I knew Nyquist would be a stud from his days in Grand Rapids, Tatar was more of a question mark, but I think his value at least equals the last first rounder (even last year). But I was calling for the Flames to get Nyquist for years now, as it was pretty obvious he was going to become a great player one day.

This would be ten times worse news if Feaster was still here, but good thing Burke knew Feaster was terrible at his job, and didn't think twice about getting rid of him. Now we have one of (if not the best) person involved in player trades, so let's just be happy with that. Two terrible years of Feaster in charge will hopefully be worth it one day if Burkie can rob a couple teams in the next few years.

[Keselke]

When the goodwill of this season's team that played with great effort, turns into several years of ineffective teams (maybe not, maybe we turn the corner)

The scrutiny of the two trades of Iginla and Bou, where our return was not maximised is going to be scrutinized heavily. Even if these two trades manage not to hurt us, and our young players develop into stars and we turn into a contending team. It doesn't change the fact our team would be even better with a greater return on these two

That being said, I am sure that's a large reason why Feaster is gone