[Signing] Flames sign Gaudreau and Arnold. Will be available for Sunday's game against Canucks

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by t0rrent98

If they both get a chance to play who sits?

Flames assigned Hanowski back to Abbotsford this evening. That opens a spot. Agostino is probably the other option to sit. Maybe Cammy as well.

[Jay Random]

Nm

[lostintokyo]

Just saw both players at YYC customs area with Conroy. They landed around midnight.

[BloodFetish]

Originally Posted by lostintokyo

Just saw both players at YYC customs area with Conroy. They landed around midnight.

StrykerSteve, or it didn't happen.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by lostintokyo

Just saw both players at YYC customs area with Conroy. They landed around midnight.

[Northendzone]

I have to admit I am a little surprised that guard eat signed here......I mean he dragged his feet for so long, I thought he would wait it out. Congrats to all the guys in the org that helped close this deal.

So, if the boys play two games this season, I am assuming that they burn a year of their ELC?

[getbak]

Here's the Hobey Baker winners list sorted by the players' ages the day they won the award:

1. Paul Kariya
   ---------- 20 ----------
2. Robb Stauber
3. Johnny Gaudreau
4. Ryan Miller
5. Tony Hrkac
6. Kip Miller
   ---------- 21 ----------
7. Bill Watson
8. Neal Broten
9. Matt Carle
10. Tom Kurvers
11. Chris Drury
12. Brendan Morrison
13. Jordan Leopold
14. Ryan Duncan
    ---------- 22 ----------
15. Mike Mottau
16. Mark Fusco
17. Kevin Porter
18. Blake Geoffrion
19. David Emma
20. Scott Pellerin
21. Chris Marinucci
22. Brian Bonin
23. Marty Sertich
24. Brian Holzinger
25. Jack Connolly
    ---------- 23 ----------
26. Andy Miele
27. Lane MacDonald
28. Scott Fusco
29. Jason Krog
30. Peter Sejna
31. George McPhee
32. Drew LeBlanc
33. Junior Lessard
    ---------- 24 ----------
34. Matt Gilroy

Kariya is the only one to win it under the age of 20, and he was still 18.

Of the other players who were under 21 when they won the Hobey, Ryan Miller is the only one to have done it during Johnny's lifetime (Kariya was the reigning Hobey champ when Johnny was born), so it's certainly a rarity.

[lostintokyo]

Originally Posted by BloodFetish

StrykerSteve, or it didn't happen.

I have a pic on my phone if you can post it.

[djsFlames]

If someone could dig up the stats and arrange the Hobey Baker winners by PPG average, I'm curious to see that list.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

That the NHLE of the NCAA is only .03 below the AHL makes me doubt that the stats can be taken at face value.

Doubt what exactly? That on average first-year NHL players who enter straight from the NCAA see a translation in their production from their final year in college to their rookie year in the NHL of 0.41 pts/game? It is an average measurement which helps to project how a player making the jump might be expected to perform. That is all.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

I have to admit I am a little surprised that guard eat signed here......I mean he dragged his feet for so long, I thought he would wait it out.?

First. What an awesome autocorrect.

Second. "Dragged his feet"?
He is entering the NHL a full year following his junior year, and a year ahead of when most players make the jump from the NCAA. There was no indications about what his decision might be in large part precisely because the nature of the NCAA agreement effectively prevents players from making any public commitments. In the end, I maintain that it was always silly to expect him to pass on the Flames.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Doubt what exactly? That on average first-year NHL players who enter straight from the NCAA see a translation in their production from their final year in college to their rookie year in the NHL of 0.41 pts/game? It is an average measurement which helps to project how a player making the jump might be expected to perform. That is all.

Well NHLE is fun to look at but it doesn't take into account the many players who don't make the NHL fresh out of college, so this only takes into account the elite few who do make it. I hope Johnny is among those elite but we'll need to wait and see.

The other thing I don't care for is the rating of the NCAA versus the AHL. Many of the players called up from the AHL aren't scorers, so that skews the rankings, while NCAA players going straight to the NHL mostly aren't grinders.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Well NHLE is fun to look at but it doesn't take into account the many players who don't make the NHL fresh out of college, so this only takes into account the elite few who do make it...

But that's just it. It also doesn't take into account the thousands upon thousands of players who don't make the NHL fresh out of the other lower level leagues as well. The number only takes into account the elite from every league who happens to have the special opportunity to play in the NHL, whether they came out of the AHL, the OHL, the KHL, or Elitseren, or wherever else they came from. There is no unique distinction to be made here for the NCAA.

Originally Posted by Vulcan

The other thing I don't care for is the rating of the NCAA versus the AHL. Many of the players called up from the AHL aren't scorers, so that skews the rankings, while NCAA players going straight to the NHL mostly aren't grinders.

Evidence?

Think about this. The NHLE is an average compiled from the available data. That's all. What doesn't appear at a glance in the figure are the many outliers that you have alluded to, but what you are also failing to note is that some of those outliers are also on the extreme high end. I mentioned him in this discussion before, but Crosby scored 102 points in his rookie NHL season, and his NHLE predicted an output of around 60 points. There are lots of reasons for the massive discrepancy; he is just an exceptionally skilled player, but also benefitted from playing that first season with a handful of hall of fame players. But further, his number coming out of juniour was also skewed likely by the fact that he had so badly outgrown the QMJHL. He was SO dominant that his pts/game output in juniour clearly did not show how good he really is. There are only so many chances that a player will have to score in any given game, and for those players who are exceptional—like Crosby—their level of play will eventually plateau as a result.

I would suggest that this similarly holds true for Gaudreau. He is so much better than every other player in college, that his skill is literally wasted at that level. Think about this: it was a common practise all season long for Jerry York to play his top line early, and to sit them for the third period and even in the second once BC started to run up the score (which was often). Gaudreau got very little power play time this year, since York also seems to have preferred to give other players more opportunities, especially in those (many) games in which BC was very comfortably in front. How much is Gaudreau's own NHLE skewed by the fact that he very likely should have smashed that 2.0 pts/game mark with regular shifts in the third period, and power play time?

[dammage79]

Haven't had the chance all day to post on the Gaudreau and Arnold signing so I'd like to express my excitement the only way I know how to properly express anything when it comes to pairs:

MOD EDIT: Image a little too much for the FOI forum

This is how I feel about today. It's a good day.

Welcome to the Flames Johnny and Billy!

[Itse]

I get why some people are worried of fan expectations. The "signing watch thread" was one of the most cringeworthy things I've seen on CP over the years.

That said, one thing that brings me comfort is that our organization has guys who have their heads on straight. Take this quote for example:

Originally Posted by sureLoss

@KristenOdlandCH: Asked Brian Burke what he plans to see from both Arnold and Gaudreau: “I don’t expect much. I won’t be surprised if they’re standing around

@KristenOdlandCH: looking at traffic and trying to figure out how to merge. It’s not unusual for a kid to be starstruck in his first game"

It's pretty clear Burke wants to take the pressure off the players, which I think is exactly what he should be doing right now.

Burke and Hartley (and Ward if Gaudreau sees time in the Heat, which I think is likely) seem to be very aware that young players need support in many other things than just transitioning their hockey skills to a new level. Even Conroy, behind all that chatter, has always seemed like a very level-headed guy to me. I'm sure his job is in part teaching Gaudreau and Arnold to laugh off some of the stuff they're hearing

It's also good that Hartley is probably right now more popular with the fans than any coach since Darryl Sutter. That should help tone down the second-guessing among the fans and media, which in turn should bring some peace to the dressing room.

This might not have been the case a few years back (and it's kind of too soon to say how it will play out in the long run), but right now we're looking like a pretty good organization for young players.

[Vulcan]

Evidence?

Discussing hockey with you is kind of strange. For players called up from the AHL for attributes other than scoring, how about Lance Bouma, Brian McGrattan, and Ben Hanowski. I'm not going to go through every NHL lineup to show you what is obvious.

The thing is, have fun with your NHLE stats but I don't put much faith in them trying to predict any players output.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Discussing hockey with you is kind of strange. For players called up from the AHL for attributes other than scoring, how about Lance Bouma, Brian McGrattan, and Ben Hanowski. I'm not going to go through every NHL lineup to show you what is obvious.

Why on Earth are you comparing 3rd/4th line depth grinders to Gaudreau, a pure goal-scorer?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Why on Earth are you comparing 3rd/4th line depth grinders to Gaudreau, a pure goal-scorer?

You're not following along. I said the NHLE is skewed when it comes to ranking the AHL because a lot of the players called up aren't called up for their scoring prowess.

[Robbob]

one of the reasons this signing makes me happy is we effectively turned a 4th round pick into the value and talent of a first rounder. Just what the doctor ordered in a rebuild.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Robbob

one of the reasons this signing makes me happy is we effectively turned a 4th round pick into the value and talent of a first rounder. Just what the doctor ordered in a rebuild.

Brodie was one too wasn't he? Now he's a legit top pairing D. It'd be funny if we kept nailing 4th rounders.