Toronto collapses again, still suck.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Like Phil Kessel?

Phaneuf, Clarkson, Lupul (who's appearing to be a band-aid boy), Bozak are taking up 30% of the Leaf's cap.

That's alot of cap space to a mediocre crew.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Phaneuf, Clarkson, Lupul (who's appearing to be a band-aid boy), Bozak are taking up 30% of the Leaf's cap.

That's alot of cap space to a mediocre crew.

How is Bozak overpaid? Can you explain that. That's interesting considering how much you guys go on about how good Grabovski is.

And nothing about Lupul's production is "Medicore".

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by moon

Exactly

His stats say otherwise.

[moon]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

How is Bozak overpaid? Can you explain that. That's interesting considering how much you guys go on about how good Grabovski is.

And nothing about Lupul's production is "Medicore".

You guys?

You understand that CP is not one collective group that agrees on every single issue.

[moon]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

His stats say otherwise.

His effectiveness on the ice says he is.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by moon

His effectiveness on the ice says he is.

You mean his regular season and playoff PPG stats.

Highest scoring NHL player the past 3 seasons. But he's a Leaf, so he's worth 3 million on the open market?

[BigTuna]

Kessel=Superstar.

[moon]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

You mean his regular season and playoff PPG stats.

Highest scoring NHL player the past 3 seasons. But he's a Leaf, so he's worth 3 million on the open market?

Nope I mean hockey being more about just scoring stats as, stopping the other team from scoring helps as well.

Also have said before your whiney he's a Leaf crap doesn't work with me since I like the Leafs.

But if Kessel is your highest paid and top forward you are going to have a hard time winning, especially in the play-offs.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by moon

Nope I mean hockey being more about just scoring stats as, stopping the other team from scoring helps as well.

Also have said before your whiney he's a Leaf crap doesn't work with me since I like the Leafs.

But if Kessel is your highest paid and top forward you are going to have a hard time winning, especially in the play-offs.

Kessel=15 goals, 21 points in 22 playoff games.

And please spare me the "It's more than Pints" routine. When Kessel got traded to Toronto everyone said he'd never score much again because he was leaving Marc Savard.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

How is Bozak overpaid? Can you explain that. That's interesting considering how much you guys go on about how good Grabovski is.

And nothing about Lupul's production is "Medicore".

I'm not saying Bozak is overpaid necessarily. I'm saying that yes they have put money to a core of guys, none of them are particularly overpaid (except Clarkson) but none of them are also really outperforming their contracts (Lupul doesn't play enough to outperform his contract).

So look at Chicago you have Sharp, Keith, Toews, Kane, Hossa, Seabrook at 48% of the cap. Significantly better value. Now sure, Chicago is the reigning champ but that's kind of the point. You need guys on deals. Toronto just doesn't have anyone on a deal that's a top player.

[BigTuna]

JVR is a tremendous steal @ 4.5 million per through his prime years.

[moon]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Kessel=15 goals, 21 points in 22 playoff games.

And please spare me the "It's more than Pints" routine. When Kessel got traded to Toronto everyone said he'd never score much again because he was leaving Marc Savard.

No everyone did not say that. Some people may have but not everyone and it wasn't close.

Good for him for scoring what is his teams record in those games?

How did he play in the last 10 minutes of the Boston game 7?

I am not saying that it is all Kessel's fault or that he sucks but when you see guys who can score at a high AND play better than average defense, it is not surprising that teams like Pittsburgh, Anaheim, Chicago, LA, Detroit are winning cups with Crosby, Getzlaf, Toews, Datsyuk, Kopitar, Zetterberg, Rcihards, Carter etc. as the top forwards on their team.

Kessel is a fine player but as the top forward and core member of a team it is going to be tough to win because he is only able to help at one end of the ice and if he isn't scoring then he is a liability.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by moon

No everyone did not say that. Some people may have but not everyone and it wasn't close.

Good for him for scoring what is his teams record in those games?

How did he play in the last 10 minutes of the Boston game 7?

I am not saying that it is all Kessel's fault or that he sucks but when you see guys who can score at a high AND play better than average defense, it is not surprising that teams like Pittsburgh, Anaheim, Chicago, LA, Detroit are winning cups with Crosby, Getzlaf, Toews, Datsyuk, Kopitar, Zetterberg, Rcihards, Carter etc. as the top forwards on their team.

Kessel is a fine player but as the top forward and core member of a team it is going to be tough to win because he is only able to help at one end of the ice and if he isn't scoring then he is a liability.

LOL. Are we really going to try to nail him for that loss? The guy had 2 game-winners. If not for that collapse, it would have been 3.

[Tinordi]

I actually agree, Kessel is the very least of Toronto's problems right now. He's a solid piece.

[moon]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

LOL. Are we really going to try to nail him for that loss? The guy had 2 game-winners. If not for that collapse, it would have been 3.

I think I said I am not blaming him alone but when he can't help out in that situation then how good of a core member is he?

I never understand why you can't take criticism about a team that is currently bottom 10 in the league?

Obviously the team has problems as it has not been very successful but any time people say that the team or player isn't awesome you come here and whine and cray about it.

[BigTuna]

Kessel played very well in the series and produced. He gave them that 4-1 lead in game 7.

You can't blame him for that.

If I was to blame anyone it's Carlyle. No timeout to this day shocks me(The ironic thing is, Carlyle called a timeout last night in Florida). Also, he over-played guys and the team was dead in the final 10 minutes.

[formulate]

I wouldn't say Kessel is the Leafs' problem, or even close. He's an elite offensive talent, and at least passable on defense. 8 million is a lot, but not the end of the world. Sure, I'd rather be giving that money to a guy like Getzlaf or Stamkos, but that's just not going to happen for every team. The problem seems to be a lack of a great two-way center. It's basically Jarome Iginla syndrome.

I truly believe that even a guy like Jordan Staal would make a world of difference. Puck possession, team defense and faceoffs are 3 of the Leafs' biggest problem areas, and Staal would address all 3.

ADD: Best value skater for Toronto is clearly JVR. I wish the Flames had been able to get their hands on him before the Leafs did.

[moon]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Kessel played very well in the series and produced. He gave them that 4-1 lead in game 7.

You can't blame him for that.

If I was to blame anyone it's Carlyle. No timeout to this day shocks me(The ironic thing is, Carlyle called a timeout last night in Florida). Also, he over-played guys and the team was dead in the final 10 minutes.

Nobody is blaming him for the loss.

But the point is that if your best forward who is also the highest paid is a liability in the last 10 minutes of a game like that then that is a problem if your team expects to have success.

Kessel is very good in the role he provides, but for me if the Leafs want to be successful they need a better player that can play in all areas of the ice to be the top forward on the team.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by moon

Nobody is blaming him for the loss.

But the point is that if your best forward who is also the highest paid is a liability in the last 10 minutes of a game like that then that is a problem if your team expects to have success.

Kessel is very good in the role he provides, but for me if the Leafs want to be successful they need a better player that can play in all areas of the ice to be the top forward on the team.

He's not though.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by formulate

I wouldn't say Kessel is the Leafs' problem, or even close. He's an elite offensive talent, and at least passable on defense. 8 million is a lot, but not the end of the world. Sure, I'd rather be giving that money to a guy like Getzlaf or Stamkos, but that's just not going to happen for every team. The problem seems to be a lack of a great two-way center. It's basically Jarome Iginla syndrome.

I truly believe that even a guy like Jordan Staal would make a world of difference. Puck possession, team defense and faceoffs are 3 of the Leafs' biggest problem areas, and Staal would address all 3.

I agree about Jordan Staal. He will be relatively cheap on the trade market right now. They are missing that type of player.