Question for the Pro-Vaccinate Crowd

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

In terms of immediate risk, yes. In terms of basic human needs, we require food, clothing and shelter. We really don't require vaccinations for living. They are obviously of incredible benefit to health and wellbeing of a person, but they are not a necessity of life. What if someone stills says no, do you really think that it is beneficial to break up a family unit, one that could be loving and nurturing because of vaccinations? The long and short term consequences of such an action would be extraordinarily negative.

Well an investigation doesn't necessarily lead to removal of children from the household. The refusal of vaccination would be a trigger, not a be all end all. There is a long and complicated process to remove children from a household.

What I toyed with proposing was CPS administer the vaccine regardless of the parental consent. If the vaccination was mandatory then parental consent is a non-issue.

[MoneyGuy]

Absolutely not. I never got my flu vaccine that last couple of years. I'd never deny vaccines for more serious diseases.

Someone suggested banning people from public and some private places. No no no. How do you ever enforce that? Tattoo their faces? That's silly. Someone said people who refuse vaccines are not smart and uneducated. That's definitely not true. Some of the smartest, best educated people I know has refused vaccinations.

How would you even enforce this? I'd suggest you can't.

Let people make their own decisions. Wash your hands and practise good hygiene.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Absolutely not. I never got my flu vaccine that last couple of years. I'd never deny vaccines for more serious diseases.

Someone suggested banning people from public and some private places. No no no. How do you ever enforce that? Tattoo their faces? That's silly. Someone said people who refuse vaccines are not smart and uneducated. That's definitely not true. Some of the smartest, best educated people I know has refused vaccinations.

How would you even enforce this? I'd suggest you can't.

Let people make their own decisions. Wash your hands and practise good hygiene.

Like really? You think this will prevent diseases like measles, polio, whooping cough etc? I question how smart and educated the people you know and hang around with really are.

[simmonjam1]

I understand the reasoning for kids to be vaccinated but how many adults here can say their own personal vaccinations are up to date?

I haven't had a vaccine since I was 19 and joined the reserves. It's not that I'm against it, it's just I never think about it.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by redforever

Like really? You think this will prevent diseases like measles, polio, whooping cough etc? I question how smart and educated the people you know and hang around with really are.

Didn't read my whole post, did you.

[FlameOn]

If there is a high confidence in the vaccine and it's effectiveness for transmittable and fatal diseases, yes make it mandatory. Anyone who refuses to take the mandatory vaccination should have it recorded in their permanent medical records and be held financially liable for medical costs of anyone they infect.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Absolutely not. I never got my flu vaccine that last couple of years. I'd never deny vaccines for more serious diseases.

Someone suggested banning people from public and some private places. No no no. How do you ever enforce that? Tattoo their faces? That's silly. Someone said people who refuse vaccines are not smart and uneducated. That's definitely not true. Some of the smartest, best educated people I know has refused vaccinations.

How would you even enforce this? I'd suggest you can't.

Let people make their own decisions. Wash your hands and practise good hygiene.

I'm not sure that'll help much if Spanish flu pt 2 breaks out. What was the count during the last one? 500 million infected, 50-100 million dead.

When it's in the air....

[psicodude]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Well that is just as stupid as not getting someone vaccinated. Rather than making it mandatory, why don't we focus on proper education. Does someone who refuses to get the flu shot each year get charged with attempted manslaughter? Seriously, I understand hyperbole in order to justify a position but that is a ludicrous idea to charge people for not getting a vaccination.

People who don't feed their children, sure that is failing to provide the necessities of life... a vaccination on the other hand doesn't fall under the same realm in my opinion at least.

Why don't they make it mandatory for children going to government regulated dayhomes and schools to provide a record of vaccinations prior to admittance. That seems to make more sense to me than making it some sort of criminal charge.

So a parent willfully and knowingly decides to deny their child a vaccine that could potentially save their life, and that isn't child abuse or neglect? Granted, the idea of hard jail time is hyperbole, but recent events have proven that many adults will choose to do the wrong thing unless there is a threat of serious punishment. My opinion is that failing to vaccinate your child (I am referring to vaccinations against diseases like MMR, not influenza) is maliciously placing them in a dangerous situation and needs to be punished accordingly. Terms and severity of punishment are debatable, of course, but I don't see why it's stupid to conclude that this could fall under the child abuse umbrella. Heck, failing to bring your child to school can carry a daily fine and contempt of court charges.

[Dion]

"So it's an absolute lie that has killed thousands of kids. Because the mothers who heard that lie, many of them didn't have their kids take either pertussis or measles vaccine, and their children are dead today. And so the people who go and engage in those anti-vaccine efforts -- you know, they, they kill children. It's a very sad thing, because these vaccines are important.” ― Bill Gates

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Absolutely not. I never got my flu vaccine that last couple of years. I'd never deny vaccines for more serious diseases.

Someone suggested banning people from public and some private places. No no no. How do you ever enforce that? Tattoo their faces? That's silly. Someone said people who refuse vaccines are not smart and uneducated. That's definitely not true. Some of the smartest, best educated people I know has refused vaccinations.

How would you even enforce this? I'd suggest you can't.

Let people make their own decisions. Wash your hands and practise good hygiene.

Right, because their decisions solely affect them and no one else.

[Tiger]

I am pro vacc, but not the flu shot. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is evidence that taking vit D (at higher doses)is more effective than the flu shot.

[Clarkey]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Even for the flu.... some people with compromised immune systems can't have it and they are depending on the herd immunity to protect them. If I ran a business, given the amount of time employees take off with the flu, I'd make it manditory for my employees to have it to reduce sick time.

I am on the yes side, but I can't think of an appropriate "punishment" for breaking this law should be.

I'm surprised by your response.

[snowshoe]

for those that do not have extenuating circumstances such as compromised immune systems definitely yes for stuff like measles, mumps, polio, etc. For the flu, not mandatory

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by psicodude

So a parent willfully and knowingly decides to deny their child a vaccine that could potentially save their life, and that isn't child abuse or neglect? Granted, the idea of hard jail time is hyperbole, but recent events have proven that many adults will choose to do the wrong thing unless there is a threat of serious punishment. My opinion is that failing to vaccinate your child (I am referring to vaccinations against diseases like MMR, not influenza) is maliciously placing them in a dangerous situation and needs to be punished accordingly. Terms and severity of punishment are debatable, of course, but I don't see why it's stupid to conclude that this could fall under the child abuse umbrella. Heck, failing to bring your child to school can carry a daily fine and contempt of court charges.

How is influenza any different? Did you get a flu shot? If not, you placed people at risk, is that abusing them?

[Kev]

Arnold and Gaudreau are pro vaccinations.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

I'm surprised by your response.

And why would that be? Or did I miss the green text?

I am almost ALWAYS on the side of "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one". Societal needs > individual rights.

[Devils'Advocate]

The vitamin D vs flu shot thing... I can't find a legitimate source on that. I typed in "vitamin D flu shot" into google and I think I came across every anti-vax site in existence. It's just sad that there are so many of them out there.

[Wastedyouth]

No. You should always have the choice of what is put into your body. It is the last great freedom we have.

I wholeheartedly believe in vaccinating BtWs.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Kev

Arnold and Gaudreau are pro vaccinations.

I LOL'd

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Tiger

I am pro vacc, but not the flu shot. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is evidence that taking vit D (at higher doses)is more effective than the flu shot.

Evidence from who?

Sounds like hooey to me.