Craig's List 2014 Prospects

[Fire]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Could always do what they do in the KHL, have a tournament and the winner gets the first overall piick.

That would be really lame. The players don't care about the draft order.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by moon

You want to talk about tanking if you are Detroit, TO or Washington and have plenty of money and loyal fans what makes more sense 2 maybe 3 home games and a first round defeat or losing a game or two at the end of the year and adding Ekblad/Reinhart?

Well, they could, but playoffs matter. The system is designed to prevent tanking; if you want to tank, then you miss the playoffs. Simple as that. You can't use that as a long-term strategy, since getting the first pick would be done to help you get IN to the playoffs. There may be one or two teams that try that, but I don't think it would be a fundamental problem. No system is perfect, either.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Muta

Well, now you're talking about which teams deserve it, which is not the point; that's your own opinion. Those teams you reference were good enough to compete, but not good enough to make the playoffs. Other teams below can fight to get into that position as well, just as much as teams would 'coast' which I don't actually think would happen. Generally, making the playoffs is better than not. Otherwise, why play hockey?

I think guys play to win the Cup not finish 8th and get beat out in the first round.

This is going to create a ton of mediocre teams because finishing 9th is now better than 8th and a much better way to get to the Cup.

It also creates a whole group of teams that now need luck to get out of the basement.

[djsFlames]

That's exactly why the KHL is lame.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by moon

I think guys play to win the Cup not finish 8th and get beat out in the first round.

This is going to create a ton of mediocre teams because finishing 9th is now better than 8th and a much better way to get to the Cup.

It also creates a whole group of teams that now need luck to get out of the basement.

You can't get to the Cup if you don't make the playoffs.

As for the bottom place teams, they all had superstars, or have young talent, in their system. It's the same teams drafting high over and over. Perhaps getting the first pick overall isn't their problem, it's something more fundamental than that.

[moon]

There is nothing wrong with tanking and it isn't a problem so not sure why we are trying to stop that.

Creating a group of 5-8 teams that aren't competitve at all for 10 years is a much worse situation for the league than a few teams tanking and getting stud players.

As much as people here whine about teams tanking I am sure most would rather see the Flames with Monahan and Dal Colle then 8 straight years of max Domi type picks.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Muta

You can't get to the Cup if you don't make the playoffs.

And you can't get to the Cup if you are the 8th seed except for 1 time in what 100 years?

The squeek in and see what happens is a horrible plan and often detrimental long term to the teams that have done it. (Calgary, Edmonton, NJ)

[Muta]

Originally Posted by moon

And you can't get to the Cup if you are the 8th seed except for 1 time in what 100 years?

The squeek in and see what happens is a horrible plan and often detrimental long term to the teams that have done it. (Calgary, Edmonton, NJ)

So, you're essentially suggesting that making the playoffs for a chance at the Cup is now a bad thing? It's detrimental to succeeding?

Ok, moon. Whatever you say.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Muta

You can't get to the Cup if you don't make the playoffs.

As for the bottom place teams, they all had superstars, or have young talent, in their system. It's the same teams drafting high over and over. Perhaps getting the first pick overall isn't their problem, it's something more fundamental than that.

Sure there is no way to fix horrible management. The Islanders and Oilers are going to suck under any situation because they have stupid management.

But what we have seen is teams like Anaheim, LA, Chicago, Pittsburgh finish bottom of the league and use those picks to rebuild into top teams in the league.

What happens to Chicago if instead of Toews and Kane they have Jiri Tlusty and Lars Eller?

Even with their smart picks of Keith, Bolland, Shaw etc. they are a constant non-play-off team.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Muta

So, you're essentially suggesting that making the playoffs for a chance at the Cup is now a bad thing? It's detrimental to succeeding?

Ok, moon. Whatever you say.

That's not what he's saying. He's saying the Sutter mantra of "just get in" may be fine for the bottom line, but reality and history shows that your actual chances of winning are extremely low. You need elite talent, and you get that mostly through the draft.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Muta

I might stir some controversy here, but why not give the 1st overall pick to the 17th place team?

Don't like just giving them the pick. Maybe giving them the same number of balls in the lottery would make more sense.

[Day Tripper]

Originally Posted by moon

Washington hasn't competed hard they have been a trainwreck team that has coasted as much as anyone.

Right now under that system they get the 2nd pick.

Toronto hasn't really worked hard and madesome boneheaded decision they are looking like a top 5 team in that system. They deserve to be rewarded for making enough boneheaded decisions that they missed the play-offs this year.

What does Jersey deserve to do to be in the 3rd spot? Putting out the oldest team in the league, taking away from teams future and creating a goaltending controversy for no reason? That deserves a top 3 pick in the upcoming draft?

Originally Posted by moon

As much as people here whine about teams tanking I am sure most would rather see the Flames with Monahan and Dal Colle then 8 straight years of max Domi type picks.

The Flames would be sitting now with Tyler Segin, Gabriel Landeskog, and their 1st overall selection in 2012 (they would have taken Galchenyuk, supposedly) from all those years where the Flames finished 9th/10th, so I don't think we would mind.

But yeah, that would be an awful system.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Muta

So, you're essentially suggesting that making the playoffs for a chance at the Cup is now a bad thing? It's detrimental to succeeding?

Ok, moon. Whatever you say.

No I am saying that if the choice is finishing 8th and hoping for a miracle run or 9th and the first pick that 9th and the 1st pick is the better option.

I am saying that the miralce runs rarely happen and in some of the cases where they did they seemed to cause the teams to think they were further ahead than where they were and make some poor long term decisions for the team.

But way to read into to nothing that was there and nake up your own make believe argument.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Moon, what is Hartley supposed to do?

Walk in the room and say "OK guys, let's suck today. No one skate, no one back check, and Karri, let in every third shot."

I want Bennett or Ekblad as bad as everyone else, but I don't know how a team can just tank.

[Muta]

Meh, don't care what people think on this, really. I said it was controversial and I stand by that. It's interesting in theory and if a team attempts to drop to 17th, the 18th place team could bump them just as much by playing harder. Team dynamics and systems would be critical when factoring in success, which is something that all teams can employ.

Just throwing out ideas. Nothing more. I'm not saying anything more on this. After moon's post, not saying anything more.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by moon

No I am saying that if the choice is finishing 8th and hoping for a miracle run or 9th and the first pick that 9th and the 1st pick is the better option.

I am saying that the miralce runs rarely happen and in some of the cases where they did they seemed to cause the teams to think they were further ahead than where they were and make some poor long term decisions for the team.

But way to read into to nothing that was there and nake up your own make believe argument.

So, you get the 1st overall pick, and then you squeak into 9th the following year? What's wrong with that? You draft to get INTO the playoffs; not to hover outside of them.

[Hackey]

Some of you are such cry babies. There is no perfect system. If the Flames were dead last no one would likely be saying anything. Especially if this was McDavids draft year. Just funny to see some of you make reccomendations from a complete place of bias. The current system isn't perfect but it's not that bad either. I don't see any way to make it drastically better. It is what it is. Tweak it like they did with the weighting this year. Minor changes sure. Major no thanks.

[ForeverFlameFan]

If you are in the top 5 pick for 3 years straight, your pick the 4th year (if you still manage to be in the bottom 5) gets slotted as the 10th pick. I see some fairness in that.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Some of you are such cry babies. There is no perfect system. If the Flames were dead last no one would likely be saying anything. Especially if this was McDavids draft year. Just funny to see some of you make reccomendations from a complete place of bias. The current system isn't perfect but it's not that bad either. I don't see any way to make it drastically better. It is what it is. Tweak it like they did with the weighting this year. Minor changes sure. Major no thanks.

Darryl K, is that you?

[moon]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Moon, what is Hartley supposed to do?

Walk in the room and say "OK guys, let's suck today. No one skate, no one back check, and Karri, let in every third shot."

I want Bennett or Ekblad as bad as everyone else, but I don't know how a team can just tank.

What are you talking about?

What does Hartley have to do with any of this?