Van and Calgary - Worst tippers

[TopChed]

I wonder if a UK style pub, where you have no server and pay for a meal before you get it at the bar, could be successful in North America?

I loved being able to hang out and have a conversation without interruption at a pub, and getting up to get a round of drinks every once in a while really isn't a huge inconvenience.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by Locke

Sounds like something hippies would use.

Well some people might call them entrepreneurs or independent business owners. Heaven forbid a small 1-2 person operation wish to utilize a low-fee credit card processor. Maybe the farmers market vendors be better off getting jobs at Wal-Mart or just collecting EI?

But yeah, sure "hippies" if you must.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by jaydorn

Well some people might call them entrepreneurs or independent business owners. Heaven forbid a small 1-2 person operation wish to utilize a low-fee credit card processor. Maybe the farmers market vendors be better off getting jobs at Wal-Mart or just collecting EI?

But yeah, sure "hippies" if you must.

I was being sarcastic.

[Yakbutter]

I'll normally do 10-20% on a bill, depending on the type of service. If I sit down for dinner and only need my meal and one drink refill brought to me I'll do 10%. However if I'm sitting at a pub for multiple hours and have had numerous drinks I'm happy to leave a bigger tip. More service needed = bigger tip.

I have 5+ on my facebook who constantly complain about their jobs in the service industry and tips. All of them I know for a fact make more than 50k a year in tips and they probably pay tax on a fraction of it. When waiters start reporting their tips as taxable income I'll have more sympathy for them not getting tipped enough.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

I'll normally do 10-20% on a bill, depending on the type of service. If I sit down for dinner and only need my meal and one drink refill brought to me I'll do 10%. However if I'm sitting at a pub for multiple hours and have had numerous drinks I'm happy to leave a bigger tip. More service needed = bigger tip.

I have 5+ on my facebook who constantly complain about their jobs in the service industry and tips. All of them I know for a fact make more than 50k a year in tips and they probably pay tax on a fraction of it. When waiters start reporting their tips as taxable income I'll have more sympathy for them not getting tipped enough.

In my experience that is logistically impossible to enforce. Its similar to why C-Train stations in Calgary are open instead of turn-styled. The cost of enforcing the regulations outweighs the benefits.

[Simanium]

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeBruce

I think the tipping scale should be determined by some sort of rule system:
Start with 15% tipping. Every time period exceeded deducts 1% of 1 min
3 mins - Drinks service (order)
4 mins - Drink service (serve)

Drink top up will count as a 1% deduction should the drink reaches bottom of the glass. 5 mins for each 1% deduction until the drink is topped up.

So if it takes her 4 mins to get your drink over, 5 mins to serve it, and failed to top your gas up for 15 mins. she will only get 10%

Likewise if she's fast, you add to her tip.
Example:
1 mins drink order, 1 mins serve, always topped up drinks with no waiting period. That's a 20% tip.

Now, if there's a mad man shouting at you from the window, and he/she chases him away. That deserves another 5%. If the restaurant is haunted and you see a ghost, and you inform the waitress and she believes you, that is another 5%.

You can also expand on it by exploring tip options for food served. Like did he/she put her finger into your pie while serving it to you? Or did he/she splash the table with cutlery? Or were you screamed at to sit down?

John Lithgow had it right on 3rd Rock From The Sun!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1ZZWhSvOMI

[GGG]

Why is being a poor tipper such a social stigma?

Even in this thread people (myself included) will defend to the death why they aren't cheap. Because for some reason being called cheap is a terrible stigma. The expansion of tipping culture takes advantage of peoples need not to be percieved as cheap. It goes along with the whole dollar for charity at the tills of every store.

Even with fast food I still feel a little bit of guilt hitting no on the tip button.

Maybe it is all part of the keeping up appearances that leads people to buy big houses and fancy cars or goes back to an evolutionary desire to fit in because you are stronger as a group if everyone obeys the norms.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by GGG

Why is being a poor tipper such a social stigma?

Even in this thread people (myself included) will defend to the death why they aren't cheap. Because for some reason being called cheap is a terrible stigma. The expansion of tipping culture takes advantage of peoples need not to be percieved as cheap. It goes along with the whole dollar for charity at the tills of every store.

Even with fast food I still feel a little bit of guilt hitting no on the tip button.

Maybe it is all part of the keeping up appearances that leads people to buy big houses and fancy cars or goes back to an evolutionary desire to fit in because you are stronger as a group if everyone obeys the norms.

Some of us have worked in the industry in the past and we know how hard it is to get by especially in an expensive town like YYC.

So I tend not to have a problem with leaving a decent tip, if deserved, and believing that the measly $5 I give more than some of the posters on here is going to mean a lot more to my server going to school/raising kids/pay rent than it would in my pocket.

[indes]

Originally Posted by GGG

Why is being a poor tipper such a social stigma?

Even in this thread people (myself included) will defend to the death why they aren't cheap. Because for some reason being called cheap is a terrible stigma. The expansion of tipping culture takes advantage of peoples need not to be percieved as cheap. It goes along with the whole dollar for charity at the tills of every store.

Even with fast food I still feel a little bit of guilt hitting no on the tip button.

Maybe it is all part of the keeping up appearances that leads people to buy big houses and fancy cars or goes back to an evolutionary desire to fit in because you are stronger as a group if everyone obeys the norms.

Most of the service industry relies on tips for their income and if the service is good I believe they've earned it. Nothing more embarrassing than going out with a friend on wing night and he orders a lemon water to keep the cost down so he doesn't have to tip as much (I no longer eat out anywhere with this guy)

Edit: I also agree that the "tip" prompt comes up way too often and at a lot of places where there is barely a service given. Great Canadian oil change is one that had me baffled

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by Scrambler

In Japan there is no tipping at all, and you'd be hard pressed to find any kind of poor service - it always seems over the top!

Same here in China. Seriously, why do I have to leave extra money because the employer pays crap wage? Plus I always found it strange how some service industry jobs get tips, while other don't. Basically the idea here is, "I'm giving you business, that should be enough!"

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by indes

Most of the service industry relies on tips for their income and if the service is good I believe they've earned it. Nothing more embarrassing than going out with a friend on wing night and he orders a lemon water to keep the cost down so he doesn't have to tip as much (I no longer eat out anywhere with this guy)

Edit: I also agree that the "tip" prompt comes up way too often and at a lot of places where there is barely a service given. Great Canadian oil change is one that had me baffled

So why does a server who makes 9.40 an hour deserved a 20% tip, while cashiers making 10-11$ an hour don't get any - because at the end of the day the server will take home a hell of a lot more money.

[Smartcar]

Cashiers don't make 10-11$ an hour, and if restaurant servers made that with no tips I don't think your average diner would be happy with the level service. If they made what they would have to in order for your average diner to be happy with the level of service, the prices would have to go up, and unless all restaurants did it at the same time, the trailblazers would go bust.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

So why does a server who makes 9.40 an hour deserved a 20% tip, while cashiers making 10-11$ an hour don't get any - because at the end of the day the server will take home a hell of a lot more money.

Why does an high-school educated oil rig worker take home >$100 000 a year? Or, who cares? Some jobs, that require the same basic skills, make different amounts of money. This is not noteworthy. Nor is it a problem that needs to be "fixed", unless by raising the wages of those on the wrong end of the pay scale.

Let me lay out the cheapskates' argument more clearly: servers shouldn't make tips, restaurants should charge the same (or less!) for food, and if servers' can't be paid a reasonable wage for their work, well, too bad, *I'm* doing all right.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Smartcar

Cashiers don't make 10-11$ an hour, and if restaurant servers made that with no tips I don't think your average diner would be happy with the level service. If they made what they would have to in order for your average diner to be happy with the level of service, the prices would have to go up, and unless all restaurants did it at the same time, the trailblazers would go bust.

Cashiers certainly do make that. That's the starting wage of most entry level grocery store Cashiers in non-union environments.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by jammies

Why does an high-school educated oil rig worker take home >$100 000 a year? Or, who cares? Some jobs, that require the same basic skills, make different amounts of money. This is not noteworthy. Nor is it a problem that needs to be "fixed", unless by raising the wages of those on the wrong end of the pay scale.

Let me lay out the cheapskates' argument more clearly: servers shouldn't make tips, restaurants should charge the same (or less!) for food, and if servers' can't be paid a reasonable wage for their work, well, too bad, *I'm* doing all right.

As far as jobs for the uneducated go, servers probably make the best money of any profession excluding things like Rig worker, because of the conditions of said Rig worker (moving to Fort Mac, etc). If you don't have any skills and want to live in Calgary, server is probably your best bet for money (legally).

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by jammies

Why does an high-school educated oil rig worker take home >$100 000 a year? Or, who cares? Some jobs, that require the same basic skills, make different amounts of money. This is not noteworthy. Nor is it a problem that needs to be "fixed", unless by raising the wages of those on the wrong end of the pay scale.

Let me lay out the cheapskates' argument more clearly: servers shouldn't make tips, restaurants should charge the same (or less!) for food, and if servers' can't be paid a reasonable wage for their work, well, too bad, *I'm* doing all right.

I don't think most people's problem is with tipping itself. The problem arises when the server starts to feel entitled to their 15-20% tip, and the service level falls as a result, then the server places the blame on the patron for being a cheapskate. Most people on this board seem to be perfectly happy tipping generously when they receive good service, but it seems like good service is becoming a thing of the past and now it's expected that people tip generously regardless of the level of service.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

I don't think most people's problem is with tipping itself. The problem arises when the server starts to feel entitled to their 15-20% tip, and the service level falls as a result, then the server places the blame on the patron for being a cheapskate. Most people on this board seem to be perfectly happy tipping generously when they receive good service, but it seems like good service is becoming a thing of the past and now it's expected that people tip generously regardless of the level of service.

I wouldn't say that's true. I mean really, how often do you get genuinely BAD service? I get average service more often than not (which usually grants them the customary 15%), and when the service is good or I've been a little more demanding and they've been up to the task I'll throw down 20%.

If the service is genuinely BAD, then the tip goes below 10% down to and including zero. That's rare though, most places I go servers are quick, efficient, accurate, and know when to give space or when it's time to ask if I need another drink. To me, giving a perfectly acceptable quality of service deserves the 15% tip as is custom in Canada.

If you don't think that you should be tipping, why go out to eat? You clearly aren't valuing the experience enough to properly pay for it, so just stay at home. I've always felt that the cost of the food covers the basics (acquiring the food, chefs preparing it for me) and that the tip is my thanks to the waiter/waitress for doing a fine job.

It really is like saying thanks. You don't have to say thanks, but whether you like it or not you are being rude if you don't (situation depending of course). Managing in retail, when I hand someone their purchase a "thanks" is my tip. No, you don't HAVE to thank me, I get paid plenty in my position and it IS my job, but unless I've been a dick just be polite and say "thanks."

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

Same here in China. Seriously, why do I have to leave extra money because the employer pays crap wage? Plus I always found it strange how some service industry jobs get tips, while other don't. Basically the idea here is, "I'm giving you business, that should be enough!"

TIPS, stands for To Insure Prompt Service. Being that the restaurant industry is a service industry, the tips are to give the server incentive to giving you better service. If you don't want the servers to work off of tips, then the employers are going to have to pay the servers more. If they pay the servers more, then they are going to have to raise the prices of their food and beverages. When you are giving your business, you are giving that to the owners, not the servers, if you don't tip.

Let's say you go into a casual restaurant for a burger, fries and a beer. Using round numbers, that will cost you about $20. With a 15% tip, that brings the final bill to $23. Based on 8 years of restaurant experience, I made about $20 per hour in tips, in addition to the $5.90 per hour I made in wages. In order for me to have continued to work in the industry, I would have needed $20, and likely $25 if proper taxes are being taken off, added to my wages. If not, I'd go find another job where I could make a similar wage. The restaurant's labour cost would rise by approximately 300%, which would then be added to the burger and beer. That burger and beer that cost $23 with tip, would very likely cost $27.

Now here's the kicker. The restaurant will likely make the same amount of net profit. The server would be little worse off, as they are having to have their complete income taxed. You are way worse off, as your meal has increased. You are also going to get worse service. If all of the servers know they are getting $30 per hour whether they do a good job or not, then the incentive to do a good job is gone. If you don't believe me, have a look at all of the servers you have seen in the restaurant industry. How many do you complain about? How many servers does Springs1 write novels about? That is when they have an incentive to do a better job. By giving you, the customer, the choice on how much to tip, you are making servers work harder for your money, and you get a say in how much to give them. The system works much better that way, then the alternative. If you don't like it, you can go pick up burger meat, buns, fries and beer and have it at home. It's cheaper for you, and you don't have to worry about tipping.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

TIPS, stands for To Insure Prompt Service. Being that the restaurant industry is a service industry, the tips are to give the server incentive to giving you better service. If you don't want the servers to work off of tips, then the employers are going to have to pay the servers more. If they pay the servers more, then they are going to have to raise the prices of their food and beverages. When you are giving your business, you are giving that to the owners, not the servers, if you don't tip.

Let's say you go into a casual restaurant for a burger, fries and a beer. Using round numbers, that will cost you about $20. With a 15% tip, that brings the final bill to $23. Based on 8 years of restaurant experience, I made about $20 per hour in tips, in addition to the $5.90 per hour I made in wages. In order for me to have continued to work in the industry, I would have needed $20, and likely $25 if proper taxes are being taken off, added to my wages. If not, I'd go find another job where I could make a similar wage. The restaurant's labour cost would rise by approximately 300%, which would then be added to the burger and beer. That burger and beer that cost $23 with tip, would very likely cost $27.

Now here's the kicker. The restaurant will likely make the same amount of net profit. The server would be little worse off, as they are having to have their complete income taxed. You are way worse off, as your meal has increased. You are also going to get worse service. If all of the servers know they are getting $30 per hour whether they do a good job or not, then the incentive to do a good job is gone. If you don't believe me, have a look at all of the servers you have seen in the restaurant industry. How many do you complain about? How many servers does Springs1 write novels about? That is when they have an incentive to do a better job. By giving you, the customer, the choice on how much to tip, you are making servers work harder for your money, and you get a say in how much to give them. The system works much better that way, then the alternative. If you don't like it, you can go pick up burger meat, buns, fries and beer and have it at home. It's cheaper for you, and you don't have to worry about tipping.

I don't really understand why it will cost more to pay the server and owner the same money that they were making? Unless you are suggesting that fewer people would frequent the restaurant so the prices will have to go up.

As for the terrible service that would come from paying the servers a fixed $30 an hour wage I think that is BS. Most industry employ people who work hard without the immediate reward of tips and I don't see why the restaurant can't do the same. Maybe the manager would need to step up and start managing his people better to maintain service levels. I would think you can find good waiters if you were advertising $30 per hour.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I don't really understand why it will cost more to pay the server and owner the same money that they were making? Unless you are suggesting that fewer people would frequent the restaurant so the prices will have to go up.

As for the terrible service that would come from paying the servers a fixed $30 an hour wage I think that is BS. Most industry employ people who work hard without the immediate reward of tips and I don't see why the restaurant can't do the same. Maybe the manager would need to step up and start managing his people better to maintain service levels. I would think you can find good waiters if you were advertising $30 per hour.

Exactly what you said in your first paragraph. Prices would have to go up, the place would get less customers, you start losing money, bam restaurant is gone. Restaurant industry is competitive enough as it is, nobody is willing to be the one to try out a no tipping system.