Toronto collapses again, still suck.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by strombad

BigTuna is the perfect example of what I was talking about.

Regarding Bozak:
Because you're talking about Grabovski (a player they got rid of), Bozak is a good player, much better even, so that Grabovski could not dream of cracking the top line.

However, talk about Kessel being average? Then Bozak becomes the worst first liner in the entire LEAGUE, and he should be so lucky to even be on the first line, and that Kessel carries the whole line.

In one scenario, Bozak is good, dependable, a sure fire 1st liner. In the other? Useless, not fit for the first line.

Toronto!

The statistics and facts say Grabovski is worse than Bozak and Kadri. You do realize that?

Grabovski was the 3rd line centre last season. Why keep him? He got more minutes this year and still isn't better than the younger cheaper centres they kept.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The Maple Leafs definitely make me a tad worried about Burke being here. He did not do a good job in Toronto. He had how many years to build that team back up? All that happened was that the team just cycled from barely a playoff team to not a playoff team back to being barely a playoff team.

Hopefully things go better here.

He had less than 4 years. That is not long at all. He started with nothing.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Anduril

Everything stats wise pointed to Bozak being the worse player than Grabovski so I'm really not sure where your confidence comes from.

Mythbusting: Tyler Bozak.

In short, bad at faceoffs despite being the 'best center', Kessel scores more goals, and is atrocious defensively without Kessel for some reason. Honestly one of the more real scenarios when people say 'Oh player x is only doing well because of player y'.

The real reason(s) behind Grabovski's buyout is the coach liked Bozak infinitely more than Grabovski for whatever reason (lolcarlyle) and they wanted to save some money to go after Clarkson. Bozak has had a solid season this year instead of Grabovski on a Ovechkin powered offensive team but I'd chalk that to having another great year from Kessel, JVR having chemistry with Kessel as well as having his own great season.

Bozak has much better stats. Are you not aware of this?


Bozak in 2013-14':
55 18 29 47 5

Grabovski in 2013-14':
54 12 22 34 5

For "Whatever Reason". LOL. Grabovski is having a worse season than Bozak and Kadri. He is the oldest and by far most expensive of the 3. He was the 3rd line centre last season. Remind me why he is better?

Trust me, if you have Grabovski as a 3rd line centre again making 5.5million everyone is laughing at it. Instead, we have trolls claiming he'd be the best Leafs centre because he's off the team.

[Spinach]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

No, it's because they make the most money with the Leafs. If it was your job, you'd show the Leafs too.

That doesn't mean we have to like it. In fact, it just adds fuel to the leaf-burning fire.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Bozak has much better stats. Are you not aware of this?


Bozak in 2013-14':
55 18 29 47 5

Grabovski in 2013-14':
54 12 22 34 5

For "Whatever Reason". LOL. Grabovski is having a worse season than Bozak and Kadri. He is the oldest and by far most expensive of the 3. He was the 3rd line centre last season. Remind me why he is better?

Trust me, if you have Grabovski as a 3rd line centre again making 5.5million everyone is laughing at it. Instead, we have trolls claiming he'd be the best Leafs centre because he's off the team.

Grabovski's 13/14 salary: 3.0M
Bozak's 13/14 salary: 4.2M
Kadri's 13/14 salary: 2.9M


I know you MEANT to mention his Leafs salary would have been 5.5M, but you were referencing 13/14 stats, so it's only fair to mention 13/14 salaries.

Fact is, the Leafs would be way better off with Grabovski than they are with Clarkson. Last summer was a bad summer for the Leafs.

[Spinach]

Originally Posted by jg13

Burke did some good things in Toronto:

1. Giving us spare parts for Dion who at the time looked like the real deal,
2. Getting Kessel into Toronto which looked like a major win for the Bruins at the time but now you could argue Toronto won that trade.
3. Getting JVR into Toronto who has looked a lot better than I ever thought he would.

Also,

4. Dealing Francois Beauchemin for Lupul, Gardiner & a 4th-rounder,
5. Trading Tomas Kaberle (plus, I think, a 4th-rounder) for a 1st, a 2nd and a certain Joe Colborne whose stock was higher then than it is now,
6. Getting Matthew Lombardi & Cody Franson for Brett Lebda (say what you will about Franson - getting him for freakin' Lebda is a steal).

I was getting nervous that Burke was actually turning around that disgrace of a franchise, and then the leafs kindly let him go so we could have him.

Thank you, MLSE.

[Scoreface]

^^ It certainly didn't help Grabovsky's odds of remaining a Leaf when he went on record calling Carlyle an idiot. Carlyle put him on the third and fourth lines and the big baby couldn't handle it. Then his contract demands were too lofty and it became a no brainer that he wouldn't re-sign there. It was either him or Carlyle and management probably didn't like the way he carried himself when he wasn't producing.

But then they use the freed up money to sign Clarkson to that monster deal. Talk about 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Grabovski's 13/14 salary: 3.0M
Bozak's 13/14 salary: 4.2M
Kadri's 13/14 salary: 2.9M


I know you MEANT to mention his Leafs salary would have been 5.5M, but you were referencing 13/14 stats, so it's only fair to mention 13/14 salaries.

Fact is, the Leafs would be way better off with Grabovski than they are with Clarkson. Last summer was a bad summer for the Leafs.

The 3 million does not matter. That was a impossibility with the Leafs. It was 5.5 million or you show him the door.

Bozak and Kadri are better.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

The statistics and facts say Grabovski is worse than Bozak and Kadri. You do realize that?

Grabovski was the 3rd line centre last season. Why keep him? He got more minutes this year and still isn't better than the younger cheaper centres they kept.

Probably because some genius of a coach decided to turn a top 6, offensive playmaker into a classic 3rd line checker. Not exactly a recipe for success.

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Bozak has much better stats. Are you not aware of this?


Bozak in 2013-14':
55 18 29 47 5

Grabovski in 2013-14':
54 12 22 34 5

For "Whatever Reason". LOL. Grabovski is having a worse season than Bozak and Kadri. He is the oldest and by far most expensive of the 3. He was the 3rd line centre last season. Remind me why he is better?

Trust me, if you have Grabovski as a 3rd line centre again making 5.5million everyone is laughing at it. Instead, we have trolls claiming he'd be the best Leafs centre because he's off the team.

Yeah let's cherry pick one year because 'what have you done for me lately.
Bozak
2011 82 15 17 32
2012 73 18 29 47
2013 46 12 16 28


Grabovski
2011 81 29 29 58
2012 74 23 28 51
2013 48 8 7 16


Grabovski at 5.5 million is expensive, no doubt. Yet between Grabovski at 5.5M and Clarkson at 5.5M, I'm pretty sure I know what I would rather go for, without 20/20 vision. Leafs panicked about being beaten by the big bad Bruins and tried to find the biggest body they could. Unfortunately they thought that a big body deserves a big cheque.

Also, you keep calling Grabovski 'old'. He's 30. Not 33. Not 36. Just 30. Bozak is only 2 years younger. Hardly a huge difference.

[PeteMoss]

Tuna - you just pulled out advanced stats to try to prove Phaneuf wasn't over matched...but we are going to ignore it now.

The only reason Bozak produces is because of his linemates. If you put Grabovski or Kadri with JVR and Kessel they'd put up more points than Bozak. He's not better than Grabovski, he just had better linemates and wasn't Kessel's best buddy.

[Spinach]

Originally Posted by T@T

When their mathematically eliminated I'll revisit this thread and give due thanks.

Yes, I believe in the power of the jinx.

I hear you. But at this point it doesn't matter whether they make the playoffs, because they are still a joke for even being in this position. If they do manage to squeak in, it'll be because three other teams (NJ, CBJ, WAS) somehow surpassed the leafs' own level of incompetence.

Plus, a first-round pummelling at the hands of the Bruins would look almost as good on the leafs as missing the playoffs would.

[Tyler]

These two are BFF's:

[Scoreface]

[QUOTE=Anduril;4705284

Grabovski at 5.5 million is expensive, no doubt. Yet between Grabovski at 5.5M and Clarkson at 5.5M, I'm pretty sure I know what I would rather go for, without 20/20 vision. Leafs panicked about being beaten by the big bad Bruins and tried to find the biggest body they could. Unfortunately they thought that a big body deserves a big cheque.

This sounds eerily similar to the effect the Bruins had on Gillis and the Canucks. They decided they needed to get bigger and meaner after their own 'collapse' to those same Bruins and offloaded Hodgson for Kassian.

Gotta love those Bruins. They've played a pretty big part in those two teams' failure in more ways than one! Thank you Boston.

[BigTuna]

Grabovski was gone because Carlyle hated him and he was their 3rd line centre.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by T@T

When their mathematically eliminated I'll revisit this thread and give due thanks.

Yes, I believe in the power of the jinx.

If the Leafs go 3-0, they still need a miracle to make to it. And they aren't going to 3-0.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Tuna - you just pulled out advanced stats to try to prove Phaneuf wasn't over matched...but we are going to ignore it now.

The only reason Bozak produces is because of his linemates. If you put Grabovski or Kadri with JVR and Kessel they'd put up more points than Bozak. He's not better than Grabovski, he just had better linemates and wasn't Kessel's best buddy.

Grabovski can't play with Kessel though. Bozak is a better set-up man. Grabovski would never thrive with Kessel and JVR. Grabs is a puck-hog.

And the fact is, Bozak has put up better stats the last 2 years. Yes, he is better. The Leafs really missed Bozak when he was hurt.

What advanced stats proves Grabovski is better?

[PeteMoss]

http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=6207

Every single player on the team (including Kessel) played better with Grabovski than Bozak.

[Kickazzflames]

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Scoreface

^^ It certainly didn't help Grabovsky's odds of remaining a Leaf when he went on record calling Carlyle an idiot. Carlyle put him on the third and fourth lines and the big baby couldn't handle it. Then his contract demands were too lofty and it became a no brainer that he wouldn't re-sign there.

Huh? Grabovsky was bought out by the Leafs. He had 4 more years remaining on the deal Burke signed him to.

[sun]

Hey BT, can you learn to multiquote? It's no use blocking your posts if there are a million of them clogging up the page.