The Canadian teams suck

[RedCoffee]

I thought the Habs and Leafs would be reversed. Thought the Habs were the pretenders of a shortened season (Subban especially) and the Leafs would prove they were good.

Also never thought the Canucks would lose both starting goalies.

[Senator Clay Davis]

The Leafs actually aren't all that good at all.

Consider this: Since a luck-driven 10-4 start to the season, the Leafs have actually been the sixth-worst team in the NHL, posting a better record than only Buffalo, Florida, Edmonton, the Islanders and Calgary.

In that span, they have won just 18 of 62 games in regulation or overtime – essentially once every 3.5 games – fewer than all but the Sabres and Panthers.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle17732588/

[CaptainCrunch]

Soooo what you're saying is Toronto is no good?

[CliffFletcher]

I've always said it's the Leafs franchise that the Flames should be frightened of becoming, not the Oilers. The laws of probability mean the Oilers will eventually luck out with some combination of top prospects. The Leafs have shown a franchise can sustain a not-quite-good-enough pace for decades on end. All you need is impatience and an infinite capacity for self-delusion.

[19Yzerman19]

I'll always measure teams by virtue of Fenwick Close, rather than standings position, until something more reliable is come up with as a predictor. Here are where the Canadian teams stand in the NHL in that regard.

Vancouver - 9th @ 52.1%
Ottawa - 13th @ 50.7%
Winnipeg - 16th @ 49.6%
Montreal - 21st @ 48.7%
Calgary - 26th @ 47.7%
Edmonton - 28th @ 43.5%
Toronto - 29th @ 41.9%

So yeah they pretty much do suck, on balance. Vancouver isn't as bad as the standings suggest, Montreal isn't as good as the standings suggest, and Toronto has only recently gotten to a point where its results match its play.


Toronto is possibly the most fun team to watch fail because it's like the epicentre of denial in Canada. Anyone could have told you this team was a house of cards waiting to fall. They're better than their possession numbers because they have guys who can offset fewer shots with higher shooting percentage but it's nowhere near enough. They were being propped up by insane goaltending numbers from two guys who are probably about average. Over time things even out - in this case, leading to people abusing James Reimer's wife on twitter (http://theleafsnation.com/2014/3/22/reminder-it-s-a-game-and-these-are-people). Incidentally, if you really want to vicariously enjoy misery, listen to the Steve Dangle podcast. His most recent great quote: "The Leafs are the Boston Bruins of losing".

Ottawa is a bit of a weird one because they have two legit good lines going for them right now, one of the best defensemen in the world, and overall seem to be playing as well or better than their opponents on many nights. But in a complete 180 from last year they simply cannot get the goaltending. 21st in the NHL in even strength save percentage after being 3rd last year. I think the reality is somewhere in the middle and they should be a playoff team next year.

Two reasons Vancouver has been so bad this year are its shooting percentage and power play - team shooting percentage for Vancouver is 19th in the NHL, but the PP shooting percentage is hilariously awful at 28th. They're fourth in the league at generating shots, (SJ, WAS, PIT, VAN). Do their players just really suck at scoring? Goaltending is also mediocre. Their defense corps is still good, though, and the oldest guy on there is 32. They've had a lot of injuries. So it looks worse than it is. But they'll probably overreact and further screw up their whole team structure trying to fix the illusory problems while ignoring the real ones because haha it's Vancouver of course they will.

As far as Winnipeg all that needs to be said is LOL Pavelec. Seriously. The guy might be the worst full-time starting netminder in the NHL. As obvious as Ottawa's goaltending futility is at 21st in the league, Winnipeg is worse; they're 24th. But they're actually a fun team to watch. If they got one solid blueliner to anchor things and got a tendy who can stop the puck at even an average level, they'd be in the postseason for, oh, I don't know, five or six games.

Calgary and Edmonton basically are who we thought they were but considering how consistently and predictably terrible the Oilers are it's still baffling to watch them. I'm like this guy watching them.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Oh come on. Bernier has been one of the NHL's best goalies this season. They should have never been in a playoff spot with these shots against. Their goaltending is setup nicely going forward.

Losing Grabovski+Macarthur are non-issues.

Did not say Bernier was a bad move just stating the changes Nonis made. funny that a team with aboalute horrible possession stats last year and letting go 2 of their best puck possession players in Grabovski and MacArthur go is a non-issue.

I think Bolland was a nice pickup but signing Clarkson, and the Dion to that extension will keep Toronto on the treadmill for years with no cup coming anytime soon

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Did not say Bernier was a bad move just stating the changes Nonis made. funny that a team with aboalute horrible possession stats last year and letting go 2 of their best puck possession players in Grabovski and MacArthur go is a non-issue.

I think Bolland was a nice pickup but signing Clarkson, and the Dion to that extension will keep Toronto on the treadmill for years with no cup coming anytime soon

They were 3rd liners last season and haven't helped their current teams much.

The one year Grabovski and Macarthur get reduced roles the Leafs made the playoffs. When they were top 6 players, the Leafs were a bottom 5 lottery team.

And Dion is fine. Especially since the Leafs have a stud future #1 D-Man in Rielly.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

I'll always measure teams by virtue of Fenwick Close, rather than standings position, until something more reliable is come up with as a predictor. Here are where the Canadian teams stand in the NHL in that regard.

Vancouver - 9th @ 52.1%
Ottawa - 13th @ 50.7%
Winnipeg - 16th @ 49.6%
Montreal - 21st @ 48.7%
Calgary - 26th @ 47.7%
Edmonton - 28th @ 43.5%
Toronto - 29th @ 41.9%

So yeah they pretty much do suck, on balance. Vancouver isn't as bad as the standings suggest, Montreal isn't as good as the standings suggest, and Toronto has only recently gotten to a point where its results match its play.


Toronto is possibly the most fun team to watch fail because it's like the epicentre of denial in Canada. Anyone could have told you this team was a house of cards waiting to fall. They're better than their possession numbers because they have guys who can offset fewer shots with higher shooting percentage but it's nowhere near enough. They were being propped up by insane goaltending numbers from two guys who are probably about average. Over time things even out - in this case, leading to people abusing James Reimer's wife on twitter (http://theleafsnation.com/2014/3/22/reminder-it-s-a-game-and-these-are-people). Incidentally, if you really want to vicariously enjoy misery, listen to the Steve Dangle podcast. His most recent great quote: "The Leafs are the Boston Bruins of losing".

Ottawa is a bit of a weird one because they have two legit good lines going for them right now, one of the best defensemen in the world, and overall seem to be playing as well or better than their opponents on many nights. But in a complete 180 from last year they simply cannot get the goaltending. 21st in the NHL in even strength save percentage after being 3rd last year. I think the reality is somewhere in the middle and they should be a playoff team next year.

Two reasons Vancouver has been so bad this year are its shooting percentage and power play - team shooting percentage for Vancouver is 19th in the NHL, but the PP shooting percentage is hilariously awful at 28th. They're fourth in the league at generating shots, (SJ, WAS, PIT, VAN). Do their players just really suck at scoring? Goaltending is also mediocre. Their defense corps is still good, though, and the oldest guy on there is 32. They've had a lot of injuries. So it looks worse than it is. But they'll probably overreact and further screw up their whole team structure trying to fix the illusory problems while ignoring the real ones because haha it's Vancouver of course they will.

As far as Winnipeg all that needs to be said is LOL Pavelec. Seriously. The guy might be the worst full-time starting netminder in the NHL. As obvious as Ottawa's goaltending futility is at 21st in the league, Winnipeg is worse; they're 24th. But they're actually a fun team to watch. If they got one solid blueliner to anchor things and got a tendy who can stop the puck at even an average level, they'd be in the postseason for, oh, I don't know, five or six games.

Calgary and Edmonton basically are who we thought they were but considering how consistently and predictably terrible the Oilers are it's still baffling to watch them. I'm like this guy watching them.

Bernier now has one of the best save % the last two seasons. How is he "average"?

[Red Slinger]

DGB has a take on this also.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/ca...offs-terrible/

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Bernier now has one of the best save % the last two seasons. How is he "average"?

Because there are lots of goalies in the NHL better then him?

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by DOOM

Because there are lots of goalies in the NHL better then him?

How can anyone say he hasn't been one of the best this season?

"Average" is laughable. He faces easily the highest amount of shots per game and has a .923 save%

[Erick Estrada]

Bad drafting is the biggest contributor but also poor management has dogged Canadian teams as well as the fact the most elite UFA players opt to go to American teams making the bad drafting stick out more as an issue. Canucks under Gillis, Oilers under the Klown show, Flames since the 90's, Jets/Thrashers, Leafs all have drafted poorly and have turned very few of their draft picks into elite superstars. The Senators and Habs have drafted better but even they haven't really franchise players although Karlsson and Subban are very good defenseman they are both flawed defensively. Most of the best players in the league were all drafted by American teams hence the dominance of US teams.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

How can anyone say he hasn't been one of the best this season?

"Average" is laughable. He faces easily the highest amount of shots per game and has a .923 save%

If your team is so awesome please explain why they have lost 8 in a row and are poised to miss the playoffs for the 8th time in 9 years?

[formulate]

As much as I've enjoyed the Leafs' collapse, saying Bernier is only 'average' is just unfair. He's been great for most of the season and is probably the biggest reason it took 75+ games for the Leafs to fall out of playoff contention.

[Burke Salad]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

They were 3rd liners last season and haven't helped their current teams much.

The one year Grabovski and Macarthur get reduced roles the Leafs made the playoffs. When they were top 6 players, the Leafs were a bottom 5 lottery team.

And Dion is fine. Especially since the Leafs have a stud future #1 D-Man in Rielly.

I really like Rielly, but that is putting a LOT of pressure on a kid that is more suited to the offensive game. He is going to need a big stay at home type partner to maximize his play.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

If your team is so awesome please explain why they have lost 8 in a row and are poised to miss the playoffs for the 8th time in 9 years?

Now you're attempting to completely change the subject because you know how silly the "Bernier is Average" comment is.

I said he's been one of the best goalies this season. I said nothing about the team being awesome.

The stats don't lie, he's had a top save % two years in a row. this year he's done it by facing the most shots of any goalie. That's not average. He's a great goalie to have going forward.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Bad drafting is the biggest contributor but also poor management has dogged Canadian teams as well as the fact the most elite UFA players opt to go to American teams making the bad drafting stick out more as an issue. Canucks under Gillis, Oilers under the Klown show, Flames since the 90's, Jets/Thrashers, Leafs all have drafted poorly and have turned very few of their draft picks into elite superstars. The Senators and Habs have drafted better but even they haven't really franchise players although Karlsson and Subban are very good defenseman they are both flawed defensively. Most of the best players in the league were all drafted by American teams hence the dominance of US teams.

Aside from the flawed Oilers, it's American teams drafting first overall and getting the superstars. There's only 7 teams (6 really, since Winnipeg just came back). Stands to reason most end up in the U.S

The Oilers just tanked during weak "First Overall" years. Like when St.Louis drafted Johnson and he was the worst of the top 5 picks.

[Poe969]

Bernier has been good but I wouldn't say he's been one of the best, you can argue that the reason he hasn't been one of the best is because of the team he's playing for. Regardless, Bernier is a good goalie; he's not average but he's not one of the best.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Bernier has been good but I wouldn't say he's been one of the best, you can argue that the reason he hasn't been one of the best is because of the team he's playing for. Regardless, Bernier is a good goalie; he's not average but he's not one of the best.

It's really hard not to put him in the top 5 for the 2013-14' season given the shots he faces and his numbers.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

It's really hard not to put him in the top 5 for the 2013-14' season given the shots he faces and his numbers.

Leafs team defence is Edmonton bad.
That Bernier has maintained that kind of save percentage in that system can not be discounted.