Fair Elections Act

[Flash Walken]

Can we get back to the issue here?

The issue is, the government is proposing legislation that effects elections. Canada's neutral elections body, as well as other experts, are suggesting that not only did the government not consult the body charged with oversight of elections, they actively misrepresented that body in order to propose legislation that have overtones threatening the basic democracy of the system. And then the LIED about consulting them. In Parliament.

Seriously here, the government is actively misrepresenting elections canada in order to pass legislation of dubious necessity that they aren't even defending. How is this defensible, in any way?

[edslunch]

I don't understand the part of the bill that will let people in western provinces see results from the east while polling stations are still open. The rationale that people in the west feel their vote doesn't count is bogus - every vote counts equally. This change opens the potential of people changing their vote or turnout based on early results from the east. In a close election this could make a difference and make elections less fair.

There's a valid argument that says you can't control information flow in the internet, in which case the most democratic thing to do would be to not release any results until all the polls are closed. So what if you don't know the results until the day after? (As a political junkie I would hate that but it is the most fair)

[19Yzerman19]

Originally Posted by edslunch

This change opens the potential of people changing their vote or turnout based on early results from the east. In a close election this could make a difference and make elections less fair.

I don't see how this makes elections less fair. People basing their decision as to whether to vote, or how to vote, on the basis of true information, is not a problem from where I sit.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

I don't see how this makes elections less fair. People basing their decision as to whether to vote, or how to vote, on the basis of true information, is not a problem from where I sit.

But this is information people in the east don't have. Bottom line is elections should be blind ballots with no knowledge of how others have voted.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by GGG

Thats fair, i should have said will make elections Canada appear partisan.

But, as far as I can tell, prior to the tabling of this bill, this wasn't an issue. No one was accusing Elections Canada of appearing or acting partisan.

Originally Posted by GGG

Individuals within EC still have the opportunity to behave in a partisan manner.

Yes, but as yet, no one has presented any evidence whatsoever that anyone in Elections Canada was actually behaving in a partisan manner.

[Slava]

I think they should have polls open for a week, or at least a few days, and then announce results a day later when the votes are counted. Why we cram this into one day when people are busy just makes no sense to me whatsoever.

[19Yzerman19]

^Not a bad idea. Would probably double turnout.

Originally Posted by edslunch

But this is information people in the east don't have. Bottom line is elections should be blind ballots with no knowledge of how others have voted.

Only because the information wasn't available at the time their ballot was cast. If I'm out of the country or a member of special forces and have to cast an absentee ballot, "new sh*t may come to light" between that point and election day, but that doesn't make my vote worth less somehow.

I guess my instant reaction to this complaint is that it's obvious and accepted in the 'States, and no one seems to have a problem with it. Our system is different and the USA is not exactly a bastion of electoral purity, but this is the source of my intuitive "what's the big deal" view on that issue.

[Daradon]

Yeah, one of the things I like about our system is the fact that Elections Canada is an independent body. This goes through and our system becomes more like the states where the ruling party controls the parameters of the election to a certain extent.

This bill is anti-democratic and doing things like this should be against the law. Changes regarding elections should need to have some support across the board. Not sure how you would enforce that, maybe need a higher than 50% vote on it to pass, ensuring that opposing parties votes could defeat it.

It's really what Harper and the Conservatives have become though. Lie and cheat, anything to win.

However, before I say it's completely a Conservative attitude, didn't Trudeau as well complain about voter fraud? He was on CBC for something like that last week. Anyone else hear about that. maybe have better information to share.

As far as actual voter fraud goes, it's a non issue, and it's insane that people think this is something that needs to be fixed.

Even just going by common sense, who would really want to go to the polls more than once anyway? Most people see it as a chore, and if they do vote, it's often grudgingly. It is beyond crazy to think that in a democracy where people are often too lazy to vote, that some people would be wasting hours even days to get in another vote or two for their candidate.

[Tinordi]

How anyone can support this government...

http://www.canada.com/news/national/...011/story.html

Unable to answer its critics’ objections, the government has lately shifted into attacking their character. Poilievre told a Senate committee Tuesday that the CEO, Marc Mayrand, is motivated by nothing but a desire for “more power, a bigger budget and less accountability.” The former auditor general, Sheila Fraser, other government members hinted, was on the take: hadn’t she accepted payment to sit as co-chair of Elections Canada’s advisory board? The board’s other members, among them some of the country’s most widely respected political and legal figures, were dismissed by a Tory senator as “celebrities.” The provincial chief electoral officers, political scientists, law professors and other specialists who have denounced the bill were derided as “self-styled” experts. The only people, it would seem, with the integrity or the expertise to comment on the bill are the people who have drafted it to their own advantage.

There’s precedent for this, sadly. It is of a piece with the government’s previous attacks on the former parliamentary budget officer, Kevin Page, and the current auditor general, Michael Ferguson. Like the CEO, their criticisms were dismissed as incompetent at best, partisan at worst — though, like the CEO, both were appointed by this government. This is more than a baseless smear on three conscientious public servants. It is an assault on their independence and authority as officers of Parliament.

But we are into new territory with the attacks on Elections Canada, as recent statements from within the party would seem to confirm. A Conservative MP told The Hill Times the severing of the agency’s investigations branch was likely in retaliation for its handling of the robocalls matter. Stephen Harper’s former communications director, Geoff Norquay, suggested it was “vengeance” for its successful prosecution of the party in the “in-and-out” affair. The Prime Minister himself, asked in Parliament about the bill’s effect on Elections Canada’s independence, mused about the need to ensure the agency is “held accountable for its actions.”

So that is the issue. That’s what the Fair Elections Act is about. With an election less than 18 months away, the government has declared war on the organization in charge of running it. It believes, or wants the public to believe, that Elections Canada is biased against it, and needs to be reined in. And its sole evidence for this extraordinary charge is the agency’s tendency to catch Conservatives in its dragnet. The recklessness — with the facts, with reputations, with the public’s faith in the democratic process — is astounding. The odds of a crisis are growing.

[SebC]

Looks like some Senators are taking this bill as an opportunity to assert their usefulness.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle17955323/

[smoothpops]

Originally Posted by SebC

Looks like some Senators are taking this bill as an opportunity to assert their usefulness.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle17955323/

This was just all part of Harper's plan to reform the Senate from the get go; attempt to pass legislation bills as terrible as possible, forcing the Senate to step up and be the sober second thought we all knew they could be.