Chris Butler Discussion: Sign, or Walk?

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Now that he is playing good and has sheltered minutes on the 5/6 line, I don't see why you don't sign him for one of two more years at a reasonable price.

Sure, with Butler you know what you get. You're going to get a guy who will play sheltered minutes on the bottom pairing and if you ask him to step up because of injury or any other reason, he's going to be below average. Why not try and improve? Last year they went and got Russell who everyone will take over Butler at this point and probably would have this whole year. I would be happier if they went and tried to get someone with more upside instead of just settling for Butler.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

You just admitted that he has been playing good for the last couple of months. Had he been playing really well first off and then playing horrible the last couple of months, I am pretty sure this poll would have all voted Butler off the team.

Now that he is playing good and has sheltered minutes on the 5/6 line, I don't see why you don't sign him for one of two more years at a reasonable price.

For a few reasons, first he's a non core 28 yo player on a rebuilding team. He won't be here when the team contends and filling roster spots with the likes of Butler when there are plenty of young players with higher ceilings you could invest ice time in is counterproductive.

Secondly, he has played well for a small sample size of time and I don't believe he is a very good player on balance. When i watch someone play for years and they are 90% bad, I am less likely to conclude that the 10% good stretch is the true player. He has been directly responsible for more goals than anybody else on the roster, including guys like wideman and russell who bring offense too.

Lastly he doesn't fit the mould of players Burke is looking for, either physical or skilled. Butler is neither. He's a soft primarily defensive dman.

It's the easy road for the flames to patch up the roster with Butler and some UFA forwards, they might even contend for 8th in the west. That is exactly what they shouldn't do because the goal isn't winning as many games as possible next season, it's building a cup contender in however long that takes.

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I'm not at all convinced that Stoner would provide any perceivable upgrade. Especially considering how much time Butler spends on the penalty kill, I tend to expect that he would likely not be an inadequate replacement.


That is not at all what I meant and you know it. The fact of the matter is that Calgary will be a hard sell to virtually every free agent. Any offers coming from the Flames would need to be excessive to get much attention. My point is that there is not a significant upgrade to be had for the same cost, and who fills the same role.

1. Stoner is a different style player, is an upgrade in the position based on the style Burke wants.
2. Butler spends a lot of time on the PK, most on the team infact, along with Gio. Does that mean he's the most valuable in that role? Flames have the 18th best penalty kill, Butler is a big part of that... seems it could be upgraded. Flames lead the league in short handed goals, Butler, who spends the most time on that penalty kill has 1 assist in those, doesn't seem overly involved in the offensive side of the PK.
3. A rebuilding team, that has gained league wide attention for being a hard working group, that is in every game they play, in a city that has never had a problem drawing free agents. I don't think it's going to be as hard of a sell as you think, especially too a bottom pairing defensemen, like goons/enforcers, they know their roles, and know they aren't at the tops of anyones list, so they take what they can get. Which is why you start by building from the bottom, get better in these positions, easier to sign better players in higher positions.
4. What does cost have to do with it? Flames have a tonne of cap space, if we need to pay a little more to upgrade a position, they do it.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Matty81

That is exactly what they shouldn't do because the goal isn't winning as many games as possible next season, it's building a cup contender in however long that takes.

And the other thing they exactly should not do is rush young defensemen into the NHL. Wotherspoon has been great in the short term, but I don't know if it's a givn he should play with the Flames next year just yet. If there is a better 5/6 UFA option, go right ahead I guess. But by your own logic, we don't want someone better for next year - which makes Butler a better choice than improving on the position through free agency.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Agreed here but I wouldn't given him 3 years. Perfer 1 year, 2 max. It always seemed silly to me to give a bottom pairing defenseman more than 2 years, it rarely turns out well.

You won't get Butler back by offering only a year, and I am quite sure that there will be offers from other teams. I would prefer two years, but also can't see much downside to signing a serviceable bottom pairing 27-year-old defenseman for three years.

[robertsfanatic]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

More shots taken against = more shots blocked.

Toronto is a team that is among the worst for shots against and they only have one in that group...I think it has more to do with making that mental commitment to get in front of shots.

[robertsfanatic]

Originally Posted by Anduril

If there was only some way to get McQuaid/Boychuk from Boston without giving him too much.

Boychuk would be fan-freaking-tastic! if they got him I would get his jersey as soon as it was available.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

And the other thing they exactly should not do is rush young defensemen into the NHL. Wotherspoon has been great in the short term, but I don't know if it's a givn he should play with the Flames next year just yet. If there is a better 5/6 UFA option, go right ahead I guess. But by your own logic, we don't want someone better for next year - which makes Butler a better choice than improving on the position through free agency.

Go after a good College UFA like Christian Folin or somebody else or pluck a young guy who has had a few years in the minors from another team that doesn't have room for him or they're ready to give up on like the Isles did with Hickey (or the flames did up front with Colborne).

The key in a rebuild is find players who aren't there but have the potential to be stanley cup champs in their slot and give them icetime and coaching. If it doesn't work the way you planned, try somebody else the next year. Butler will never approach stanley cup calibre even in a 4th-6th dman slot. He is a stopgap with no upside or trade value and a waste of a spot both from the perspective of building a cup champ and from an asset perspective.

[EldrickOnIce]

I'm sure guys like Folin are targeted... they just won't sign with the Flames.
They will go to places like Edmonton where they are handed top minutes without earning/deserving it. And I am certain Flames look for diamonds in the rough in other organizations - all teams do. And there may be some very good options out there.
And if not, I'd be happy to have Butler back for a couple years.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

You won't get Butler back by offering only a year, and I am quite sure that there will be offers from other teams. I would prefer two years, but also can't see much downside to signing a serviceable bottom pairing 27-year-old defenseman for three years.

Honestly I'd just let him walk then..... I'd rather roll the dice on another guy (like Kris Russell) then locking up a bottom pairing d-man to a 3 year contract. The downside is that commiting these fringe spots when you don't know who will be pushing for spots in the next 3 years (Sieloff? Wotherspoon? Ramage?) and we're stuck having to bury a 1-way contract in the AHL, again.

[HelloHockeyFans]

I say sign him and force the kids to take his spot. Similar to SOB, if a prospect forces management's hands, they've shown they'll do it.

Giordano, Brodie, Wideman, Russell, Smid and Butler are the locks and Wotherspoon battles whomever else for the 7th spot and possibly the 6th spot if they do well enough.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by wretched34

Yes, they are in the bottom pairing for a good reason, because they aren't good enough to be a top 4 guy, and I would have to say there are a lot better options for a 5/6 guy than Butler, when it come to the role Burke wants filled.
Butler does not offer a physical game, which is what Burke wants.
If your top 4 D are going to be your offensive minded guys, and your solid 2 way guys, your bottom pair better be stay at home physical guys, like Smid.
I'd take a guy like Stoner over Butler in that 5/6 role anyday of the week, at least opponents will pay attention when Stoner is on the ice.

As for the second bolded point, with that logic, re-sign everyone. They know the team, and they know the direction.... Don't bring in any UFA's, because they may not have friends here, and god forbid they'd have to listen to the coach. This is a rebuild after all, keep things the same!

So you ignore the rest of the reasons given and make a point on just this?

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

I say sign him and force the kids to take his spot.

That's exactly what you do.
Unless you are Edmonton.
Then you just hand a kid that spot...

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

I've always thought butler gets a rough ride from flames fans.

Still, let him walk. The flames have to get bigger and better everywhere, including on D. Butler is the easy target to improve on.

If Burke signs him and trades wideman or something that's fine too, but I think that would be less likely (and god bless Burke if he can do both).

[sun]

Sign him after that beauty kick pass tonight.

[sun]

Man, did Butler kick pass tonight or what? Kicked some serious pass.

[dying4acup]

I read a lot of posts in this thread, but admittedly not all. Bottom line: do I believe he will be a major player here when we make the playoffs again? No

And I don't think we can get much for him even if he is signed at 2Mish going forward.

I wish him the best and thank him for his time here, but he is right now, part of the problem, and not part of the solution.

[edslunch]

Would he sign here? Will he have other offers from better teams?

[stignasty]

22 more blocked shots and he's a plus player.

[Money Baer]

I think Burke will opt to add some size and physicality to our backend by going after one of Greene or Murray. Not saying this is necessarily the best option, but I could see it happening.