2013-2014 Flames are they that good?

[Sylvanfan]

Season's like this are where I realize how much of a score it was for the players to get a salary cap floor in place.

The Flames can ice a 30-35 million dollar a year payroll team and be every bit as good or better than the 56 million dollar team they started the season with. The Flames still lack real top line talent up front but I think the organization has pretty good depth. They do need a couple of good high picks that pan out but they look to have a decent foundation in place to get back to being relevant.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by nik-

I think we need to add two elite players to really be a legit contender. Which is a little scary, because this team works too hard to get into McDavid/Eichel territory. We're going to have to have some pretty significant drafting luck go our way in the form of some home runs in the 5-10 range which is where we're likely going to be the next few years.

It is interesting to look at the top teams in the league and see how they were built via draft picks. You need home runs outside of the 1-10 range and hopefully you hit those home runs before you add your "Elite" players with early picks (bolded below).

St.Louis: Pieces on their current roster started with the 2003 Draft.

2003: Round 2 63: David Backes
2004: Round 1 24 : T.J. Oshie
2004: Round 6 180: Roman Polak
2006: Round 1 1: Erik Johnson (Turned into Kevin Shattenkirk)
2006: Round 1 25: Patrik Berglund
2007: Round 1 18: Ian Cole
2008: Round 1 4: Alex Pietrangelo
2010: Round 1 14: Jaden Schwartz
2010: Round 1 16: Vladimir Tarasenko

Plus other solid picks that they used to upgrade other positions but aren't on the current roster anymore: Lee Stempniak (5th Round), Lars Eller (1st Round), David Perron (1st Round), Ben Bishop 3rd Round).

Boston: Also starts with the 2003 Draft but their success is also due to good UFA signing and great trades.

2003: Round 2 45: Patrice Bergeron
2004: Round 2 63: David Krejci
2006: Round 2 50: Milan Lucic
2006: Round 3 71: Brad Marchand
2009: Round 1 25: Jordan Caron
2011: Round 1 9: Dougie Hamilton

Plus other solid picks that they used to upgrade other positions but aren't on the current roster anymore: Vladimir Sobotka (Round 4), Phil Kessel/Tyler Seguin (Round 1), Joe Colborne (Round 1),

Chicago: The framwork for their turnaround really started back in 2001 and goes far beyond the current roster. Also they were able to turn draft pick misses into hits by making good trades.

2001: Round 1 9: Tuomo Ruutu (Turned into Andrew Ladd)
2002:Round 2 54: Duncan Keith
2002: Round 5 156: James Wisniewski
2003: Round 1 14: Brent Seabrook
2003: Round 2 52: Corey Crawford
2003: Round 8 245: Dustin Byfuglien
2004: Round 1 3: Cam Barker (Turned into Nick Leddy)
2004: Round 2 32: Dave Bolland
2004: Round 2 41: Bryan Bickell
2004: Round 7 214: Troy Brouwer
2005: Round 4 108: Niklas Hjalmarsson
2006: Round 1 3: Jonathan Toews
2007: Round 1 1: Patrick Kane
2009: Round 5 149: Marcus Kruger
2011: Round 2 43: Brandon Saad
2011: Round 5: Andrew Shaw

Plus Teravainen, Hartman, McNeill, Hayes, as promising prospects still in the pipeline. The way Chicago has drafted and managed assets is unbelievable.

So a takeaway is that it was about 8 years after the team drafted their first impact player for the team to become a contender, you also need at least 10 draft picks that turn into good players during that time.

Each team hit on two of their top picks and either have them on their roster or turned them into assets that are helping them contend.

The Flames hit on Monahan, now they need that second piece, while also hoping some of the later round picks develop into NHLers.

[SuperMatt18]

My post above actually intrigued me to do a similar type of thing with the Flames drafting/development over the last couple years. The first thing you notice is we have no players from before the 2007 draft on our roster, and that is why we are a bottom 5 team. So naturally we start at the 2007 draft.

NHLers (Have not looked out of place in NHL action: 50+ Games)

2007: Round 1 24: Mikael Backlund
2007: Round 6 179: Paul Byron
2008: Round 1 16: Joe Colborne
2008: Round 3 78: Lance Bouma
2008: Round 4 114: TJ Brodie
2011: Round 1 13: Sven Baertschi
2013: Round 1 6: Sean Monahan

NHL Prospects (Shown enough that they could be NHLers)

2009: Round 3 63: Ben Hanowski
2009: Round 5 135: Corban Knight
2009: Round 6 171: Joni Ortio
2010: Round 3 64: Max Reinhart
2010: Round 4 108: Bill Arnold
2010: Round 5 133: Michael Ferland
2010: Round 5 140: Kenny Agostino
2011: Round 2 45: Markus Granlund
2011: Round 2 57: Tyler Wotherspoon
2011: Round 4 104: John Gaudreau
2012: Round 1 21: Mark Jankowski
2012: Round 2 42: Patrick Sieloff
2012: Round 3 75: Jon Gilles
2013: Round 1 21: Emile Poirier
2013: Round 1 28: Morgan Klimchuk
2013: Round 3 67: Keegan Kanzig (Coaching staff loved him so he makes the list)

So still lots of work for the Flames through their drafts the next two seasons. Best case scenario 2015/2016 season is when the Flames should be targeting for the team to be on the upswing. They also have to hope that some of the pieces they added in this same age range can help to contribute to the building of the team (Paul Byron, Joe Colborne, Kenny Agostino, Ben Hanowski, Corban Knight).

If they can turn 25% of their current "NHL Prospects" into solid NHL players that will be a good start as it adds 4 drafted players to the roster. Add two more top 10 picks (maybe top 5) from 2014 and 2015 into the fold and the Flames will be in decent shape.

[Otto-matic]

#Flames captain Mark Giordano addresses being in the Norris Trophy mix after 2 pm on the Big Show this afternoon.

[nik-]

That's making a lot out of nothing. I know they need to stretch content and stir up interest, but sheesh.

[OzSome]

Let's just say the Flames are one of the hardest working team in the NHL. They are not that good right now but if they stick to their plan, they will get there. I like the no-quitting attitude of this team and that for me is entertaining. Talent-wise Flames are in probably one of the bottom 5 in the NHL but the kids are improving. We do not have any superstar in this team and the closest to All-Star we have is probably Giordano or even Cammy; other than that I guess the answer is No, they are not that good YET!

[CaptainCrunch]

Well now the tough thing for the Flames is as they move forward and start bringing in more kids if they pick up the banner of the ruthless work ethic.

We know that Granlund came up and picked it up right away, but how about when you start pushing the Ferlands, and the Klimchuks etc.

Does this team keep the hard working attack philosophy like they had this year?

We know that Hartley likes his offensive systems so I'm not too worried about pouring more skill into the lineup, but will they strap on their workboots?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Well now the tough thing for the Flames is as they move forward and start bringing in more kids if they pick up the banner of the ruthless work ethic.

We know that Granlund came up and picked it up right away, but how about when you start pushing the Ferlands, and the Klimchuks etc.

Does this team keep the hard working attack philosophy like they had this year?

We know that Hartley likes his offensive systems so I'm not too worried about pouring more skill into the lineup, but will they strap on their workboots?

That is the job of Troy Ward.

If he can continue to get his guys buying in at the AHL level, it will make it that much easier for Hartley at the NHL level.

Starts with rewarding hard work and calling up the right players, and so far the Flames have been able to do that.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

They are 26th place good.

It's not the losing, it's HOW they lose.

How they lose is making this the best Flames season for me since 07-08.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Well now the tough thing for the Flames is as they move forward and start bringing in more kids if they pick up the banner of the ruthless work ethic.

We know that Granlund came up and picked it up right away, but how about when you start pushing the Ferlands, and the Klimchuks etc.

Does this team keep the hard working attack philosophy like they had this year?

We know that Hartley likes his offensive systems so I'm not too worried about pouring more skill into the lineup, but will they strap on their workboots?

I think the key to that is continually having prospects/rookies working into the line-up each year. That was a major downfall of the D.Sutter years as they had virtually no young guys taking spots and ended up with guys like Jeff Freisen cashing cheques on the 4th line.

You need at a few 'balls to walls' veteran leaders who bring it no matter what (it will be Gio/Backlund/Bouma here perhaps Stajan) and then you need internal competition to keep the other players in line. If a Ferland isn't bringing it, you have a Jooris/Hanowski/Agostino ready in the wings to take his spot until he learns it or he sits in the AHL.

[Robbob]

You look at the rosters of the decent teams and the one thing that stands out is they get contributions from outside the first round. The Flames are way too early in the development to see if those picks can make the step. The one advantage the Flames have is they prior to the rebuild they look to have developed some NHL talent (Bouma, Brodie, Backlund etc). I don't think anyone expects them to content for a playoff spot in the next two years. The big "if" is if the following on the list continue to develop:

2007: Round 1 24: Mikael Backlund
2007: Round 6 179: Paul Byron
2008: Round 1 16: Joe Colborne
2008: Round 3 78: Lance Bouma
2008: Round 4 114: TJ Brodie
2011: Round 1 13: Sven Baertschi
2013: Round 1 6: Sean Monahan
2009: Round 3 63: Ben Hanowski
2009: Round 5 135: Corban Knight
2009: Round 6 171: Joni Ortio
2010: Round 3 64: Max Reinhart
2010: Round 4 108: Bill Arnold
2010: Round 5 133: Michael Ferland
2010: Round 5 140: Kenny Agostino
2011: Round 2 45: Markus Granlund
2011: Round 2 57: Tyler Wotherspoon
2011: Round 4 104: John Gaudreau
2012: Round 1 21: Mark Jankowski
2012: Round 2 42: Patrick Sieloff
2012: Round 3 75: Jon Gilles
2013: Round 1 21: Emile Poirier
2013: Round 1 28: Morgan Klimchuk
2013: Round 3 67: Keegan Kanzig

Add to this list a couple high first and second rounders from the next two drafts.

Not the worst place to be looking forward.

[PeteMoss]

Arbitrary end points alert.... from Jan 18 until now... (from @DarrenHaynes_CP)

[gvitaly]

Are the Flames that good? No. You don't get a really good team sitting 26th overall, no matter how you slice it you need to take into account the entire season.

I absolutely love the attitude and enjoy the winning as much as all of you. I think a large part of it has come because certain players are currently on hot streaks. All I need to do is remember the end of Dec and the beginning of Jan, when we couldn't buy a goal. If the other team scored first we were almost certain it was over.

Don't forget as our players become better, the book on them also gets larger and larger so they will be a little easier to defend against. For example, Monahan's scoring streak in the beginning of the year was in large part because teams didn't pay him that much attention.

The Flames did succeed in building a locker room, with great attitude and amazing work ethic. I just hope it stays that way for next season, because the locker room will be gradually changing and so will its attitude (depending on the free agents the Flames sign). In large part drafting a talented individual is only the start in hockey, setting him on the right pass to have a successful career is extremely important. So far, I think our coaches are finding the right buttons to push on most players, not so much on others(Baertschi).

Finally, the continual improvement in goaltending and team defense really helped the Flames this year. Now all we need is to find a way to not give up the lead first, and be more disciplined when we get one. If we accomplish that we could reach the playoffs(in 2-3 years). However, lets not forget that reaching the playoffs and finding ways to win in the playoffs are two different things.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Arbitrary end points alert.... from Jan 18 until now... (from @DarrenHaynes_CP)

Would like to see at the end of the year the split between games 1-41 and games 42-82. The growth of our players this year is definitely evident in the results we've been getting the last quarter of the season. That's what makes those results actually important. We have such a large number of players in a time of their career where they still have such a large window of improvement, that for the first time in a while we get to see how player development is actually translating to wins on the ice.

[Vinny01]

I remember when Feaster said it and nearly 3 years later it nigh turn out to be totally true. He stated the 2011 draft was going to be a remembered fondly by the fans (something along those lines). Looking at the 4 prospects that remain he could very well be right
Sven, Granlund, Wotherspoon, Johnny. We could have 3 top 6 forwards and 1 top 4 D right there. Sven took a step back this year but the other 3 took big steps forward and are big reasons why some pundits are starting to say the rebuild might not take as long as initially expected.

[CaptainCrunch]

The guy that I could see really fitting in well in the bottom 6 that was just taking strides this year is Michael Ferland, the guy has everything this team needs, toughness, some offensive ability, above average skating and a jerk factor a mile wide.

Hopefully he recovers over the summer and continues his development.

[wretched34]

As shown above, since January 18th, the Flames are tied for 4th in the Western Conference, with Colorado, and 8th in the league. The recent play shows that we are capable of being a good team, and playing well against other top teams.
That 14-9-0-1 record does not show that 7 of those regulation losses were 1 goal losses, and 2 were 2 goal losses.
The excuse of "other teams taking us lightly" isn't valid at this point. The majority of the last 24 games have been against playoff teams battling for home ice, or teams battling for wildcard spots. Those teams don't just roll into Calgary to play half a** and expect to win, they have reason and determination to win.
15 of the last 24 games have been against those playoff, or wildcard teams, and we have a .500 record against them, 7-7-0-1, but a 4-1-0-0 record against teams I consider top 5: San Jose (played 3 times in past 24 games and are 2-1-0-0), Anaheim (1-0-0-0) Chicago (1-0-0-0).

With the current roster, we're not a contender, or a threat, but we are a workhorse, and resilient as H*ll.
With a little more talent injected, without throwing off the chemistry, this team can make noise.
We have a solid depth core, with an amazing identity and attitude. A top 3 winger, and a true Starter could be the difference. At least difference enough to turn alot of those 1 goal losses, into wins, or at least OT point.
Is Ramo that starter? or a tandem of Ramo/Ortio strong enough to make up for it. It appears it's possible. Is Gaudreau that top 3 winger? or is Gaudreau + Poirier/Klimchuk enough if we can't land an elite UFA or make a trade?
I think next season will have us pushing for a wildcard spot with the roster close to what it is today. If Burke makes an addition or too to help Offensively, I think playoffs are a realistic thought.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by wretched34

As shown above, since January 18th, the Flames are tied for 4th in the Western Conference, with Colorado, and 8th in the league. The recent play shows that we are capable of being a good team, and playing well against other top teams.
That 14-9-0-1 record does not show that 7 of those regulation losses were 1 goal losses, and 2 were 2 goal losses.
The excuse of "other teams taking us lightly" isn't valid at this point. The majority of the last 24 games have been against playoff teams battling for home ice, or teams battling for wildcard spots. Those teams don't just roll into Calgary to play half a** and expect to win, they have reason and determination to win.
15 of the last 24 games have been against those playoff, or wildcard teams, and we have a .500 record against them, 7-7-0-1, but a 4-1-0-0 record against teams I consider top 5: San Jose (played 3 times in past 24 games and are 2-1-0-0), Anaheim (1-0-0-0) Chicago (1-0-0-0).

With the current roster, we're not a contender, or a threat, but we are a workhorse, and resilient as H*ll.
With a little more talent injected, without throwing off the chemistry, this team can make noise.
We have a solid depth core, with an amazing identity and attitude. A top 3 winger, and a true Starter could be the difference. At least difference enough to turn alot of those 1 goal losses, into wins, or at least OT point.
Is Ramo that starter? or a tandem of Ramo/Ortio strong enough to make up for it. It appears it's possible. Is Gaudreau that top 3 winger? or is Gaudreau + Poirier/Klimchuk enough if we can't land an elite UFA or make a trade?
I think next season will have us pushing for a wildcard spot with the roster close to what it is today. If Burke makes an addition or too to help Offensively, I think playoffs are a realistic thought.

My thoughts exactly. In a way, we are rebuilding, we just didn't realize that we had the tools to build the house quicker than others. And now we are realizing that we can get this rebuild done faster. We've had the prospects all along, we just kept filling veterans in their spot. Giving all of these young guys a chance to shine is really paying off.

A good shout out to Ward down there in the AHL, he's doing a terrific job with the Heat crew.

[Enoch Root]

At the start of the year, the best thing you could say about the defense was: thank God for Edmonton. Most people would have ranked them at or near 29th in the league. But the reconstruction of said defense has been remarkable. To start the season, we had:

Giordano - Wideman
Brodie - Butler
Russell - O'Brien

Gio was coming back from an off year. Brodie was improving but young. Russell was a question mark. Butler was, well Butler. And O'Brien was, well, SOB.

But Giordano has gone full beast-mode, Brodie has made huge strides, Russell has been more than anyone expected (or even hoped), they added Smid, Butler is playing the best hockey of his career, Wideman was better than last year until he got hurt, and then was replaced with Wotherspoon who has been a pleasant surprise.

The Giordano - Brodie pairing has been one of the top pairings in the league over the last 20 games, IMO. (the stats back me up even if you think I'm crazy)

Russell and Butler work great together. And the Wotherspoon - Smid duo is surprisingly good.

All in all, the defense has gone from "I can't watch" and probably 29th in the league to decently competent and probably somewhere around middle of the pack. Pretty amazing transformation in a matter of half a season.

By the way, the current 6 is only 26.3 years old.

[GGG]

We have faced a lot of backup goalies this year. It seems. Is there anywhere that tracks this? If we are highest than average then expect a setback as we get better and face starters