Malaysia Jet missing-Officials conclude crash in Indian ocean/all lives presumed lost

[Ryan Coke]

I touched on it earlier, but it is absolutely no type of normal procedure for fighting a fire. You may partially depressurize in order to assist in evacuation of smoke/fumes, but that is only partially...because it is illogical to risk killing people due to oxygen depravation because you are trying to save them from fire.

It would be dangerous and irresponsible to try a completely unapproved procedure like that to attempt to control a fire, unless it was an absolute last resort.

That isn't what happened.

[Ryan Coke]

BTW, the reason for controlling the outflow valves (in addition to de pressurizing in the event of an evacuation as Acey pointed out), is to manually control pressurization in the event that the auto controllers fail.

[afc wimbledon]

I tend to think fire myself, pilots shut down the circuits one by one to eliminate the source, maybe they had a cockpit full of smoke but no actual fire, that would be the lack of communication, dropped it down fast and turned looking for an airport, they may have lost track of sequences in the panic and forgot to turn comms back on as they were trying to control things.
Granted there are plenty of holes in it but terrorism makes no sense or pilot suicide, in either of these you get the process over quickly and generally with alot more fanfare.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I tend to think fire myself, pilots shut down the circuits one by one to eliminate the source, maybe they had a cockpit full of smoke but no actual fire, that would be the lack of communication, dropped it down fast and turned looking for an airport, they may have lost track of sequences in the panic and forgot to turn comms back on as they were trying to control things.
Granted there are plenty of holes in it but terrorism makes no sense or pilot suicide, in either of these you get the process over quickly and generally with alot more fanfare.

And then turned North, flew for a while, and then turned more than 90 degrees south and flew until they crashed. The only thing that makes sense is someone in control unfortunately. If it wasn't for those last two course changes, the fire/hypoxia theories would make sense. Unfortunately there's just too many changes that would have occurred after these events would have overtaken them.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by nik-

And then turned North, flew for a while, and then turned more than 90 degrees south and flew until they crashed. The only thing that makes sense is someone in control unfortunately. If it wasn't for those last two course changes, the fire/hypoxia theories would make sense. Unfortunately there's just too many changes that would have occurred after these events would have overtaken them.

I could see the pilot or co pilot not being sure which was the closest put down and changing there mind as to where to go, or even not being sure which direction they where headed if they had a cabin full of smoke and some plastic bags over their heads

I just cant see why a pilot would wait 7 hours to kill himself and in the event of a hijacking they would have signaled to the ATC, chances are the hijackers would have asked them to, or why you fly in a relatively straight line into the ocean either, easy enough to make huge imperceptable turns to keep the plane near land

[Acey]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I tend to think fire myself, pilots shut down the circuits one by one to eliminate the source, maybe they had a cockpit full of smoke but no actual fire, that would be the lack of communication, dropped it down fast and turned looking for an airport, they may have lost track of sequences in the panic and forgot to turn comms back on as they were trying to control things.

CRM = crew resource management. The first part of your theory suggests great CRM, troubleshooting a potential fire by nuking systems that may be the cause... but what about the part where they climbed back up to altitude and headed for the South Pole, i.e. in a course that would take them as far as possible from an airfield?

Why would a seemingly competent crew inexplicably fly toward nothing without there having been a pressurization malfunction causing hypoxia, or foul play?

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

pilot suicide... you get the process over quickly and generally with alot more fanfare.

Unless you want people to think it wasn't pilot suicide. Just as we are debating now.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Acey

CRM = crew resource management. The first part of your theory suggests great CRM, troubleshooting a potential fire by nuking systems that may be the cause... but what about the part where they climbed back up to altitude and headed for the South Pole, i.e. in a course that would take them as far as possible from an airfield?

Why would a seemingly competent crew inexplicably fly toward nothing without there having been a pressurization malfunction causing hypoxia, or foul play?



Unless you want people to think it wasn't pilot suicide. Just as we are debating now.

the altitude is not in any way certain though at this point, according to the experts.

And why would you decide to kill 300 odd souls if you dont want anyone to think it was suicide, the occasions these happen the jerks put the thing nose first into the ground

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Acey

CRM = crew resource management. The first part of your theory suggests great CRM, troubleshooting a potential fire by nuking systems that may be the cause... but what about the part where they climbed back up to altitude and headed for the South Pole, i.e. in a course that would take them as far as possible from an airfield?

Why would a seemingly competent crew inexplicably fly toward nothing without there having been a pressurization malfunction causing hypoxia, or foul play?



Unless you want people to think it wasn't pilot suicide. Just as we are debating now.

Could suicide cause a life insurance policy to be downgraded. If so I could see the person trying to make it look like it was an accident or at least unsolved.

[nik-]

an airborne Thelma and Louise

[Acey]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

the altitude is not in any way certain though at this point, according to the experts.

True, but if they manage to get a decent idea of the flight path they'll be able to make a pretty good guess, as endurance at various altitudes is well documented... and of course, above like 13,000 feet, people will start passing out without pressurization.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Could suicide cause a life insurance policy to be downgraded. If so I could see the person trying to make it look like it was an accident or at least unsolved.

I doubt the pilots get paid out in that case. In fact Im not sure they would be able to get a life policy for a work place accident in any case

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Could suicide cause a life insurance policy to be downgraded. If so I could see the person trying to make it look like it was an accident or at least unsolved.

Been there, done that....

1994, Federal Express Flight 705, a cargo jet carrying electronics across the United States from Memphis to San Jose, California, experienced an attempted hijacking for the purpose of a suicide attack.

Auburn Calloway, a Federal Express employee facing possible dismissal for lying about his previous flying experience, boarded the scheduled flight as a deadheading passenger with a guitar case carrying several hammers and a speargun. He intended to disable the aircraft's cockpit voice recorder before take-off and, once airborne, kill the crew using the blunt force of the hammers so their injuries would appear consistent with an accident rather than a hijacking. The speargun would be a last resort. He would then crash the aircraft while just appearing to be an employee killed in an accident. This would make his family eligible for a $2.5 million life insurance policy paid by Federal Express.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...ess_Flight_705

His plan failed.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Acey

Been there, done that....



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...ess_Flight_705

His plan failed.

Hey, I saw part of that on TV. I didn't know he was trying to get around insurance rules though. I just thought it was some crazy guy with a bag full of hammers.

[Ryan Coke]

I would suggest that there is often not much logic in a persons suicide plan. There are plenty of examples of suicide where they took others with them, and no logical reason why.

The insurance idea is something, if you really need a logical reason. And life insurance policies most certainly do cover pilots while working.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

I would suggest that there is often not much logic in a persons suicide plan. There are plenty of examples of suicide where they took others with them, and no logical reason why.

The insurance idea is something, if you really need a logical reason. And life insurance policies most certainly do cover pilots while working.

It's not so much logic in a suicide as predictabilty, generally those that don't want to talk about it get it over quickly, I cannot see a 7 hour flight in silence, I don't see how the copilot or pilot would be overcome, again given 7 hours odd they would have battered the door down with the passengers help if they were locked out. then there's the habit of people giving things away before they kill themselves, chances are by now someone would have come foward to say they thought someone was acting odd.

Again terrorism doesnt make sense as terrorists would let everyone know why they were killing everybody, even lone wack jobs that think they're jihadists would be on the radio making manifesto speech's or the like.

[KelVarnsen]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

It's not so much logic in a suicide as predictabilty, generally those that don't want to talk about it get it over quickly, I cannot see a 7 hour flight in silence, I don't see how the copilot or pilot would be overcome, again given 7 hours odd they would have battered the door down with the passengers help if they were locked out. then there's the habit of people giving things away before they kill themselves, chances are by now someone would have come foward to say they thought someone was acting odd.

Again terrorism doesnt make sense as terrorists would let everyone know why they were killing everybody, even lone wack jobs that think they're jihadists would be on the radio making manifesto speech's or the like.

The pilot or co-pilot could have pressurised the aircraft, waited for everyone else to pass out, then remove their oxygen mask and pass out like the rest. Would be impossible to proof which pilot did so.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Could suicide cause a life insurance policy to be downgraded. If so I could see the person trying to make it look like it was an accident or at least unsolved.

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I doubt the pilots get paid out in that case. In fact Im not sure they would be able to get a life policy for a work place accident in any case

Suicide pays out if it's after two years from the policy date. That's how it is in Canada anyway. Not sure about the Far East. Yes you can get a policy that covers you for a workplace death.

[RedHot25]

Well, this could potentially be interesting...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malaysi...data-1.2585080

China demanded Tuesday that Malaysia turn over satellite data used to conclude that a Malaysia Airlines passenger jet was lost in the southern Indian Ocean with no survivors during a flight to Beijing.

Deputy Foreign Minister Xie Hangsheng told Malaysia's ambassador to Beijing that China wanted to know what exactly led Malaysia to announce Monday night that the plane had been lost, China's Foreign Ministry said on its website.

"We demand the Malaysian side to make clear the specific basis on which they come to this judgment," Xie was quoted as telling Datuk Iskandar Bin Sarudin during their meeting late Monday.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Well, this could potentially be interesting...

"We demand the Malaysian side to make clear the specific basis on which they come to this judgment," Xie was quoted as telling Datuk Iskandar Bin Sarudin during their meeting late Monday.

This whole investigation has been a gong show of opaqueness. Malaysia won't release manifest, Malaysia won't release radar data, Malaysia won't release flight path data, Malaysia won't release satellite images. When will they just cooperate and just put everything out there some people can just help find the plane faster.

[jeffman]

You know you #####ed up when China is telling you to be more transparent