Are animals self-aware?

[Cowperson]

Always an intriguing question . . . . . . Are animals self-aware?

Would your pet dog or cat pass the test? Do they laugh, smile, frown? Are they happy? Are they sad? Are they selfish? Do they share? What does "play" signify about self-awareness?

Would you say Oiler fans self-aware after examining the Whyte Avenue debacle?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13006804/site/newsweek/

Cowperson

[Lanny_MacDonald]

I believe animals are self-aware. I think it is the height bof human arrogance when we view other animals as being completely devoid of certain brain functions. My bloodhound displays many characteristics that we associate with being "human". He displays emotions and he displays the ability to problem solve. He's manipulative and understands the "house rules" and how they apply to him. And he most definitely has the ability to discern between good and bad. When the Flames are on, he stays in the room with me while I watch the game (I think he's a big Harvey fan). When the Oilers are on, he usually wants to go out and take a dump.

[socalwingfan]

We were recently in Europe for 2 weeks and the day we were set to return, our dog-sitter said it was if our dog knew we were coming home that day. She was sitting by the door waiting for us and seemed to get more depressed the longer the day went without us getting home and for the first time while we were away she didn't eat that day.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

my dog used to sleep outside the door of my room when I was home (but not when I wasn't) and everyone else went off to work, or school. This was back in my undergrad when the rest of the fam was out the door by 8am.

Like clockwork he'd always get up from where ever he was in the house at 4:15 to wait for mom at the door.

He knew to go to the back door and let people know he had to go out

He had the ability to problem solve, understand when he was in trouble, when he did good, and if I was to ask him to do my favourite trick, he'd give me his paw, if my brother asked the same question he'd lie down.

When I spent a summer in Montreal my dog used to sleep on my bed, but never at any other time did he ever get on my bed unless he was specifically told by my mother it was ok (he trusted her above the rest of the clowns in the house, again smart), the reason for being scared to get on my bed is a funny story for another time

So are animals self-aware? Yeah I think so.

[CaramonLS]

I'd have to beleive they are too.

When I lived at home, I had 2 (Both brother and sister) cats I had grown up with for 12 years, one day when one of them didn't come home, the other cat acted much differently for months afterwards.

He would go upstairs in the middle of the night and yowl, he gained a good deal of weight and just didn't seem right. After about 6 months of him acting like this, we got a new cat, and within a month, he was definately more like himself.

A similar thing also happened when I went to college and moved out of my parents house. For the first few weeks he'd go and urinate on various corners of my room and continue his yowling at night. It only last a few weeks since I guess he knows that I always come back at least 2x a week for various things, but there were definate changes when I did move out.

I think he was depressed/upset in both of those cases.

[Bobblehead]

Jurassic Bark from Futurama always chokes me up, and Cowperson has one of the best sigs I have seen.

But getting back to the original article, I don't think there will ever be on definative test for animal self-awareness. There are too many ways self awareness can manifest, and too many different brain structures.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

I think you are all confusing what is meant by self aware.
Certainly dogs and other animals can understand who is in charge, and can understand what they are and aren't allowed to do.

What self aware means (at least in one sense) is that the animals can understand their own existance, which is evident in the mirror test. Sure your dog knows what time you get home from work, but can he understand that the reflection he sees in the mirror is actually him? And what can he do with this knowledge?

I'm not saying I don't agree with you, many animals are very intelligent (not those damn dolphins though, they aren't so smart on land), and many probably do have some level of self awareness, as this article points out. But having personality, showing some intelligence does not equate to self awareness.

[edn88]

As a pet owner, it is hard not to believe that our pet is not self-aware - not to the same level as a human (or a chimp even), but there is certainly some 'emotion' and an ability to communicate (obviously it understands commands from us, but it is able to tell us when it is hungry, wants to play etc).

[Tron_fdc]

Are animals self aware? Do they have personalities? Come see my Jack Russel. Sometimes I wish he was a little dumber, because it seems like I live with a 3 year old child.

- he eats garbage then runs and hides when I get home 3 hours later
- If he's mad at you for not paying attention he'll sneak off and pee on your shoes
- he knows about 9 different commands, but only when it's convenient
- I'm beginning to think he's racist, or he's just an a-hole
- He thinks that he's about 100lbs heavier than any other dog in the park, and will take away sticks, balls, whatever from any dog around him, not matter how mad they are about it.

Such a wierd, wierd animal.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

I'm not saying I don't agree with you, many animals are very intelligent (not those damn dolphins though, they aren't so smart on land)

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Dolphins aren't so smart on land....

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/45360/print/


Or are they?

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28315

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28315

A hmm:

Originally Posted by Kent Brockman

And I, for one, welcome our new dolphin overlords

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Dolphins aren't so smart on land....

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/45360/print/

I found this line to be quite hysterical but I'm somewhat of a sick individual with an amazingly detailed and active imagination.

Lindell added: "In most cases, the dolphins succeeded in finding land mines only when we placed them directly on top of the mines."

[Hakan]

Only cute animals that we don't slaughter on a massive scale for self gratifying food consumption are self aware.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Hakan

Only cute animals that we don't slaughter on a massive scale for self gratifying food consumption are self aware.

Exactly! It's how things work in order to help everyone sleep at night.

[OldSam]

My experiences make me certain some animals are self-aware.

For decades now, I have been fortunate to share my life with some wonderful arabian horses (for those of you that don't know, they were raised in tents with their bedouin owners and were valued above everything in the nomadic life, resulting what in most cases is a higher level of human to animal bonding than normal).

While all of mine were tested to above average intelligence for the breed, one of them has exhibited amazing self-awareness. He solves problems. Here is an example. For several days, he seemed to be watching me undo the box that contained his treats. One day, he made his way to the "cookie" box, flipped both handles, rolled the lid off and proceeded to reward himself with food.

In this instance, the motivator for him was food. The other horses knew there was food in that box but this one figured out how to access the treats himself.

Is that self-awareness? I believe so.

I don't believe all animals are self-aware. But I definitely believe some are. Over the years, I've come to believe it relates to how they are perceived and treated by their owners.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

See, I don't think that is self awareness.
I'm not saying that your horse doesn't posess some level of it, but I don't think that's an example of it.
Learning does not necessarily equate to self awareness, they are different concepts.

If simply being able to learn was an indication of self awareness then there would be no debate, as it is very clear that just about any animal can be trained, and many can figure out complex tasks on their own.
What the article is talking about is something completely different.

I'm not saying that many animals do not show some leven (in some cases a very high level) of self awareness, quite the opposite infact, I think it's clear that they do. But My dog can do tricks, and my horse can get his own treats are not examples of this.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by fotze

So let me phrase this in the form of a puzzler?

Is a masturbating monkey demonstrating 'self-awareness'?

I suppose you could argue that either way.

One group could say it's simply a learned behavior, just a simple reward based behavior

and another group could say that the monkey clearly understands that it can cause itself pleasure, and that this is a sign that it is self aware.

Tough call, but I suppose if say the monkey seens another monkey spanking the human, and then figures out that he can pleasure himslef in the same way, that would be a pretty clear indication of self awareness. At least I would say so.

[Buff]

Back in high school I had a dog. A beautiful golden pure bred Cocker Spaniel. Well one day he got sick and crapped diarhea all over the carpet in the tv room in the basement. My mom, not know about the dogs misfortunes, found him hiding in a corner upstairs behind some plants (hiding in the jungle). In a pleasant manner she asked him why he was laying there and he sat up, hung his head low with his eyes looking up at her. It wasn't until later that she discovered the mess that he left in the basement.

There were a few other times that he showed emabarrasment.

[troutman]

Humans are animals, and we are self-aware.