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Old 03-12-2014, 12:29 PM   #121
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The issue with using anyone elses currency is that you lose control of your economy and become a servant state, you can't effectively budget or even trade.

Also the country that owns it might not be too happy with someone else hijacking your currency because it effects the value of your dollar.
There are drawbacks, but you have other ways to control your economy. There is both fiscal and monetary policy at your disposal. It has worked out for the Euro, despite the obvious issues it has caused for countries like Greece. It also worked for some countries who have a currency that is pegged to another, so it definitely can be done.
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Old 03-12-2014, 01:25 PM   #122
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Would all the Francophones be deported back to Quebec after a separation? Alberta would have a drywaller/taper shortage.
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Old 03-12-2014, 01:42 PM   #123
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Say for instance that 65% of Quebec voted for independance, that would surely be a clear enough majority. How do you tell the other 35% that they are no longer able to be Canadians?
If they don't want to join the new Quebec does their land get confiscated?
Does the Quebec government buy it?

Marois makes it sound like it would be an easy, seamless transition where in reality it would probably be a mess with decades of court battles.

I can't imagine that there wouldn't be violence, does the Canadian military then step in to stop conflicts? Surely they would be tasked to protect Canadian citizens.
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Old 03-12-2014, 01:46 PM   #124
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In terms of Quebec land mass separating from Canada, wouldn't 2/3 of Northern Quebec remain as the Cree and other First Nations have stated in the past that they have no intention of leaving Canada?
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:52 PM   #125
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Would all the Francophones be deported back to Quebec after a separation? Alberta would have a drywaller/taper shortage.
I'm assuming they'd have to get some kind of work visa though.

Francophones working in government in Ontario would probably be canned if they wanted to be Quebec Citizens, as would francophone members of the military.
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:53 PM   #126
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Say for instance that 65% of Quebec voted for independance, that would surely be a clear enough majority. How do you tell the other 35% that they are no longer able to be Canadians?
If they don't want to join the new Quebec does their land get confiscated?
Does the Quebec government buy it?

Marois makes it sound like it would be an easy, seamless transition where in reality it would probably be a mess with decades of court battles.

I can't imagine that there wouldn't be violence, does the Canadian military then step in to stop conflicts? Surely they would be tasked to protect Canadian citizens.
I think that the idea would be that the choice is to live in a pure, french only Francophone society, or try to see your property and leave.

I would assume that this mess would eventually end up in international court.
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Old 03-13-2014, 04:15 PM   #127
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Quebec received 7.13 billion in equalization payments last year. That's twice as much as the next closest province received, Ontario.

Seperation is just a threat to get more money. They've been receiving equilization payments since the program started. That's some good leadership they've got over there.

I don't want them to leave but if they choose to leave let them go. If they choose to stay, start reducing they're equalization payments until they become more fiscally responsible.
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Old 03-18-2014, 06:53 PM   #128
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Looks like things are turning around, Marois is probably regretting going off script.
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...-numbers-slip/
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A two-way race has emerged, with Coalition Avenir Québec support moving largely to the Liberals. The poll of 1,400 people, conducted March 12-16, gave the Liberals 39%, compared with 36% for the PQ, 13% for the CAQ and 10% for Québec Solidaire. Among francophones, the PQ still leads the Liberals, 43% to 30%, but that is a 10-point drop from a month ago. Most troubling for Ms. Marois are the poll’s findings on sovereignty and the prospect of another referendum if the PQ is elected. Two-thirds of respondents said they do not want another referendum, but the same proportion said they expect the PQ to call one if it wins a majority. Just 38% said they would vote yes to sovereignty, down from 41% a month earlier.
It turns out the PQ’s sovereignty strategy of promising a white paper on Quebec’s future but refusing to say whether it would hold a referendum was not half as clever as the party thought. The arrival of former Quebecor Inc. chief executive Pierre Karl Péladeau as a PQ candidate, with his clenched-fist plea for independence, has persuaded Quebecers the party means business this time.
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Old 03-18-2014, 07:09 PM   #129
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Time to amend the constitution to make Canada indivisible.
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:45 PM   #130
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Quebec received 7.13 billion in equalization payments last year. That's twice as much as the next closest province received, Ontario.

Seperation is just a threat to get more money. They've been receiving equilization payments since the program started. That's some good leadership they've got over there.

I don't want them to leave but if they choose to leave let them go. If they choose to stay, start reducing they're equalization payments until they become more fiscally responsible.
To me there are two camps, the extortionists and the plunderers. The plunderers are the rich elite who want separation because they can swoop in and cash in on the chaos. Quebec is extremely crooked, and I am sure many of them will be rewarded with handsome opportunities come separation. These are the guys who keep pushing for the votes and actually want to win.

The second are plain old legal extortionists who are too lazy to make something of themselves, so they resort to this cause they can.

As a contrast, I have tons of respect for the folks of Newfoundland, after all they have been through. They received funds for years and didn't extort or say jack. yes they were angry when the fisheries collapsed, but who wouldn't in that situation. Now they are getting it going again by hard work and I couldn't be happier.
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:58 PM   #131
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As a contrast, I have tons of respect for the folks of Newfoundland, after all they have been through. They received funds for years and didn't extort or say jack. yes they were angry when the fisheries collapsed, but who wouldn't in that situation. Now they are getting it going again by hard work and I couldn't be happier.
Hard work has nothing to do with it. Newfoundland's economy turned around when they discovered offshore oil and gas reserves they could develop. Newfies weren't lazy when their economy sucked, and they didn't suddenly become role model workers when their economy started doing well.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:11 PM   #132
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Hard work has nothing to do with it. Newfoundland's economy turned around when they discovered offshore oil and gas reserves they could develop. Newfies weren't lazy when their economy sucked, and they didn't suddenly become role model workers when their economy started doing well.

Not to mention that many Newfoundlanders wanted nothing to do with Canada when they were forced into confederation in 1949 and many people used to fly the Newfoundland flag above the Canadian flag until as late as the 1970s. I wouldn't be surprised if there are still many that are sovereignists there.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:31 PM   #133
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I wouldn't be surprised if there are still many that are sovereignists there.
Hard to believe
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:57 AM   #134
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Looks like things are turning around, Marois is probably regretting going off script.
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...-numbers-slip/
I think the true focus of the separatists should be turning the Quebec economy into one that is indisputably better off not being a part or Canada. Becoming a net contributor in equalization with no more number fudging, less focus on making sure business signs and Facebook pages adhere to language laws, less "Charter of Rights" distractions, etc. The rest of their argument would fall into place pretty easily afterwards I think.

The fact that hasn't happened yet tells me it's not possible and/or the separatists aren't serious about it.

Also helps that Quebec opposition parties continue to hammer away at the PQ about separation. Slightly below the surface I think we're seeing the PQ doesn't have a clue or a plan beyond "waiting for the right time" and hoping they can keep the Canadian dollar, passports, porous borders, etc. Might help if there was actually some sort of a plan in place for what happens after a Yes vote.

Or at least some good sound bytes for what should have been foreseen as an obvious election focus on the PQ.
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Old 03-19-2014, 03:12 PM   #135
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We were discussing how this would affect the First Nations, wonder what Marois thinks of this?

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/03...m-grand-chief/
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Leaders from Mohawk communities near Montreal say they will likely declare their own independence if a re-elected Parti Québécois succeeds in winning a third sovereignty referendum. “We’d never be part of Quebec or cede out of Canada because we don’t believe we are Canadians to begin with. Our ties are to the land,” said Grand Chief Michael Delisle of Kahnawake, which counts about 8,000 Mohawks. “I would take a wild guess and I’m sure I’d be right my community would absolutely turn down any sovereignty movement by the provincial government.”
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“I would advise our council and community to hold our own vote in order to determine whether we would stay within the borders of Quebec or separate ourselves,” said Mohawk Council of Akwesasne Grand Chief Mike Kanentakeron Mitchell in a press release Tuesday. “With the potential threat of this region’s culture and language becoming distinctly French, we must concern ourselves with the reality that there is not even 1% of the Akwesasne population that speaks the French language.”
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The occupants of northern Quebec are almost entirely First Nations and Inuit. Cree and Inuit in northern Quebec had previously raised concerns relating to a potential separation during the 1995 referendum.

“Quebec can decide whatever it wants for itself but as far as the land is concerned to us there are clear arguments,” said Assembly of First Nations regional chief for Quebec and Labrador, Ghislain Picard. “Quebec can decide the fate of its people for itself, but they certainly cannot decide our fate as First Nations people,”
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Old 03-19-2014, 04:46 PM   #136
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This election might become a massive blunder by Marois and the PQ as they slip in the polls into a minority position

http://www.threehundredeight.com/p/quebec.html
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Old 03-19-2014, 04:46 PM   #137
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It's definitely an encouraging sign, but the debates haven't even gone yet. Plenty of time to reverse and reverse again.
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Old 03-19-2014, 04:57 PM   #138
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Sure, but any thought of an easy majority might be gone. Marois going to get hammered on the charter in the debates, and hopefully her economic performance, and her vision of a separate Quebec.

And remember she's refusing to take part in the English debates
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:04 PM   #139
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Oh, I'm not sure she ever thought it would be easy, just that it would be the best time. Worst case scenario, pick up a seat or two even if you don't get the majority. (EDIT: I guess that's a level of ease and confidence, but not as far as a majority goes.)

Didn't hear that, why is she not doing that? Doesn't that just make her seem divisive?

I never figured it would be a sure thing for her, she got the student vote last time, based on that whole tuition fiasco. They weren't the typical separatist boosters, but wanted what she said she'd do for them, and the Liberals lost the support from pretty much saying they'd have to increase the tuition.

But the students tunred against her quick when she was forced to make a smaller increase, instead of the freeze she promised. She won't have the same support from non-base groups this time.

Really the biggest thing she has in her arsenal right now is the values charter, which strangely enough seems to have about 60% support.

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Old 03-19-2014, 05:09 PM   #140
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As I understand the PQ Charter thing - a truly repugnant concept to me - the support for it seems to be that it is a solution to the issue of accommodation in Quebec.

I get the sense that it may be the only solution actually tabled into policy, and the other parties do not have a concrete plan to deal with it, or have not announced the actual details of their solution. They talk about it, but haven't put together an alternative solution to the issue.

So I don't know that it is support for the PQ Charter per se, but speculate that the popular support may be because it is the only concrete option on the table.
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