'The Walking Dead- TV show ONLY! Only spoilers allowed are about PAST TV episodes!

[speede5]

Originally Posted by Igster

Same with this. Good episode, but you want things to move faster? You're supposed to want to know what Terminus is about, but you're not going to know in two seconds. It's called building a story arc.

It's funny. All people did (and I'm not saying you) was complain that the show was boring when they were all together on the farm or in the prison. Now that they are separated and we are learning more about the characters than ever before, people want to rush them into getting back together. Patience Danielson...

8 episodes isn't a story arc, it's a saga.

I hear what your saying, I actually was looking forward to life outside the prison, maybe the reason I don't love these episodes is because none of the characters seem strong enough to hold down an entire episode on their own. I have a feeling if I were to marathon this season I would enjoy it much more, as a weekly it seems drawn out. Plus the realization we are only going to get a glimpse of this Terminus, and the new characters before the season ends is frustrating. They are doing a ton of building for next season.

It will be a long summer......

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Yamer

While I agree that the show took a dark and interesting turn last night, and was one of the more emotionally powerful segments in the series, I was distracted by what has generally been poor performances by Sarbino and Kenedy. I have seen numerous performances by actors of their age and many are much better than what I saw last night. Lizzie pleading with Carol about how sorry she was just looked, well, kind of ridiculous. It wasn't convincing, and I felt it took away from the impact of the scene and the episode as a whole. That is just one example.

With that reasoning, the "complaining" is not unnecessary at all, as the goal of any program is to entertain the viewer. That performance diminished my enjoyment, and it is a rational complaint to have.

Look, I get it, sometimes it seems like people only come in here to attack a show you obviously like and enjoy. I like the show too, but not as much as I did 2 years ago and it is showing in my posting habits. Frankly, I'm going to critique the show when I feel it isn't achieving my standards (which are only different, not better, than anyone else's). I don't mind debating my points, but I don't see how they should be labeled as complaining for the sake of it.

I agree. I've even been starting my posts by saying I liked the episode just to appease the fanboys to which this show can do no wrong. I really do like the show or I wouldn't watch it weekly. I said earlier in the season the young girls weren't good actors but really mediocre acting kind of comes with the series as most of the really good actors in the show were killed off in the 2nd season. Quality acting isn't a reason to tune into this show.

Bad acting and kids handling guns like they were pros aside the episode hit the mark but I'm in agreement with the article below that maybe they went too far with the killing of the kids. Going somewhere this dark doesn't really fit this show and it almost feels like they went out of their way to create some controversy.

http://popwatch.ew.com/2014/03/16/wa...ead-the-grove/

[Rubber Ducky]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Bad acting and kids handling guns like they were pros aside the episode hit the mark but I'm in agreement with the article below that maybe they went too far with the killing of the kids. Going somewhere this dark doesn't really fit this show and it almost feels like they went out of their way to create some controversy.

http://popwatch.ew.com/2014/03/16/wa...ead-the-grove/

Thanks for posting that article. Interesting read.

I thought they handled this jaw-dropping moment very tastefully. We never really did see Mika clearly - she was laying behind her sister. In fact, did we ever see Mika with blood on her? If I recall correctly, all the blood was on Lizzie's hands and knife. And we never did see Carol or Tyreese do the final shot on Mika.

Similarly, we never did see Lizzie get shot. We know it happens, and we see her blanket-wrapped body with a red spot near the head later, but we didn't see a child get shot and killed.

So something that had the potential to go too far was tastefully handled I thought. And I loved the scene. It seemed real to me. My jaw was hanging down as I watched it play out.

[Zulu29]

I thought it was the best episode of the second half so far!

[Hockeyguy15]

So we can see women get raped on TV, but killing children off screen is a no go?

This isn't the first time children have been murdered in TV or movies.

[Inglewood Jack]

last June I watched a pregnant lady get stabbed repeatedly in the belly on cable TV. I don't think there's a whole lot after that which is gonna shock and enrage me too much, especially in the context of a zombie apocalypse show.

the EW article explains where this storyline came from, and it wasn't just pulled out of thin air for pure shock value. none of the kids on this show have been worthy of Emmys so I wasn't expecting that to somehow change for this episode. for me it was all about the effect on Carol and Tyrese because they're the ones moving on, and it was done about as well as I could have hoped.

performances are generally up and down on the TWD, but the two adults nailed it last night. and the show generally doesn't get enough credit for the parts of the direction that are strong besides acting. in my opinion the blocking, camera angles/movement, and lighting are excellent. there's more than a few Hollywood directors that could learn something from watching more cable.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

So we can see women get raped on TV, but killing children off screen is a no go?

This isn't the first time children have been murdered in TV or movies.

Kids are treated differently as even disturbing horror movies usually don't involve graphic scenes with kids.

It wasn't that she was murdered and more than she was essentially executed. Even if she does commit murder on her sister I would like to think that I would have tied her up before deciding it was my place to execute her. I thought the overall episode was good but IMO the whole execution scene is just not a direction that I think the show needed to go. Seems more like something you would see in Game of Thrones than the walking dead.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Kids are treated differently as even disturbing horror movies usually don't involve graphic scenes with kids.

It wasn't that she was murdered and more than she was essentially executed. Even if she does commit murder on her sister I would like to think that I would have tied her up before deciding it was my place to execute her. I thought the overall episode was good but IMO the whole execution scene is just not a direction that I think the show needed to go. Seems more like something you would see in Game of Thrones than the walking dead.

So what was a better option for dealing with Lizzy?

Basically you have 3 options...
1) Do nothing, continue on your way with Lizzy in tow (great idea!)
2) Send her off on her own, to either get killed or have her come kill you later
3) execute her

Those are the 3 same options Rick had with Carol.

[dobbles]

figured i would follow up as to why i didn't like the episode since most actually did, and a lot of the dissatisfaction discussion has centered around the acting abilities of the children...

to me the episode was poor because i don't really care about lizzie and mika. sure it sucks to see kids die like they did, but i'm not emotionally invested in their outcomes. the show has had lots of loss: shane, dale, sophia, andrea, lori, etc and even people we loved to hate like merle and the governor. they were characters i cared about and their death impacted the show and those that were left.

yet those girls were not important. aside from carol, no one really had a bond with them. they were both pretty useless. one was crazy. the impact was about as small as beth losing jimmy in season 2 or her new bf at the beginning of this season.

additionally, it is compounded by the lack of movement for this whole second half of the season. just like wasting an entire episode to show that carl is still just a kid that needs his dad, this episode only accomplished 1 totally minor thing. thats ok if you are an afternoon soap opera with 200 episodes a year. but this show only has 16 for a whole season, and we are wasting an entire episode to kill off 2 minor characters?

perhaps it is me. perhaps i have unrealistic expectations of this show. but the reason i started watching this show was in season 1. every single episode had me so nervous. i was absolutely engrossed. each episode had a lot of action and development. yet its turned into such a slow paced soap opera that i now get up and do laundry in the middle of an episode.

its just disappointing to see something go from totally awesome to watch to something run of the mill.

/rant

[Rubber Ducky]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

So what was a better option for dealing with Lizzy?

Basically you have 3 options...
1) Do nothing, continue on your way with Lizzy in tow (great idea!)
2) Send her off on her own, to either get killed or have her come kill you later
3) execute her

Those are the 3 same options Rick had with Carol.

My co-worker had a great idea - leave Lizzy locked in a room with her sister, and when her sister "reawakens" they could be best friends.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by dobbles

figured i would follow up as to why i didn't like the episode since most actually did, and a lot of the dissatisfaction discussion has centered around the acting abilities of the children...

to me the episode was poor because i don't really care about lizzie and mika. sure it sucks to see kids die like they did, but i'm not emotionally invested in their outcomes. the show has had lots of loss: shane, dale, sophia, andrea, lori, etc and even people we loved to hate like merle and the governor. they were characters i cared about and their death impacted the show and those that were left.

yet those girls were not important. aside from carol, no one really had a bond with them. they were both pretty useless. one was crazy. the impact was about as small as beth losing jimmy in season 2 or her new bf at the beginning of this season.

additionally, it is compounded by the lack of movement for this whole second half of the season. just like wasting an entire episode to show that carl is still just a kid that needs his dad, this episode only accomplished 1 totally minor thing. thats ok if you are an afternoon soap opera with 200 episodes a year. but this show only has 16 for a whole season, and we are wasting an entire episode to kill off 2 minor characters?

perhaps it is me. perhaps i have unrealistic expectations of this show. but the reason i started watching this show was in season 1. every single episode had me so nervous. i was absolutely engrossed. each episode had a lot of action and development. yet its turned into such a slow paced soap opera that i now get up and do laundry in the middle of an episode.

its just disappointing to see something go from totally awesome to watch to something run of the mill.

/rant

In a world with a dwindling supply of living people, I would suggest young people are very useful

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Rubber Ducky

My co-worker had a great idea - leave Lizzy locked in a room with her sister, and when her sister "reawakens" they could be best friends.

Pretty sure that was already done at Woodbury.

I knew the little girl had to go, I'm just surprised they went through with it. On most shows something would've happened, like she got bit, turned and then they shoot her, or she accidently shoots herself, or gets hit by a car. They could've used many outs, but they didn't. I give them credit for that.

I'm actually surprised she didn't test her theories out on the baby, because I just don't see the character development with that kid.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

So what was a better option for dealing with Lizzy?

Basically you have 3 options...
1) Do nothing, continue on your way with Lizzy in tow (great idea!)
2) Send her off on her own, to either get killed or have her come kill you later
3) execute her

Those are the 3 same options Rick had with Carol.

I would have confiscated all her of any weapons and tied her up at nights and headed to Terminus where I would explain to the people there of the situation and go from there where she could be prisoned, rehabilitated, etc. I just don't see when it's ever acceptable to just execute a kid. I just can't accept that supposedly good people could do this even in their situation.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by dobbles

figured i would follow up as to why i didn't like the episode since most actually did, and a lot of the dissatisfaction discussion has centered around the acting abilities of the children...

to me the episode was poor because i don't really care about lizzie and mika. sure it sucks to see kids die like they did, but i'm not emotionally invested in their outcomes. the show has had lots of loss: shane, dale, sophia, andrea, lori, etc and even people we loved to hate like merle and the governor. they were characters i cared about and their death impacted the show and those that were left.

yet those girls were not important. aside from carol, no one really had a bond with them. they were both pretty useless. one was crazy. the impact was about as small as beth losing jimmy in season 2 or her new bf at the beginning of this season.

additionally, it is compounded by the lack of movement for this whole second half of the season. just like wasting an entire episode to show that carl is still just a kid that needs his dad, this episode only accomplished 1 totally minor thing. thats ok if you are an afternoon soap opera with 200 episodes a year. but this show only has 16 for a whole season, and we are wasting an entire episode to kill off 2 minor characters?

perhaps it is me. perhaps i have unrealistic expectations of this show. but the reason i started watching this show was in season 1. every single episode had me so nervous. i was absolutely engrossed. each episode had a lot of action and development. yet its turned into such a slow paced soap opera that i now get up and do laundry in the middle of an episode.

its just disappointing to see something go from totally awesome to watch to something run of the mill.

/rant

Yeah, saying that you didn't like the episode because they killed off two unimportant characters, and thus it didn't have any impact misses the point of this episode entirely.

This episode wasn't about the two girls, it was about Carol and Tyrese.
It doesn't matter that we aren't attached to the girls, what matters is that Carol is, and she's the one who's most affected by this.

The entire episode was about how to make it in this world you have to change, you have to do things you never thougth you could or would do.
Carol does the unthinkable by killing the girl, because she knows she is a danger to everyone around here. Tyrese does what he didn't think he could do, forgive Carol, because he knows he needs her help if he and Judith are going to survive.

They are very different examples of people doing difficult things because they realize that's what they need to do to survive. The girls on the other hand couldn't change, and that's why they aren't around anymore.

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would have confiscated all her of any weapons and tied her up at nights and headed to Terminus where I would explain to the people there of the situation and go from there where she could be prisoned, rehabilitated, etc. I just don't see when it's ever acceptable to just execute a kid. I just can't accept that supposedly good people could do this even in their situation.

Who said they're good? That was a pretty big theme from last night's episode where the only people left alive aren't that good.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would have confiscated all her of any weapons and tied her up at nights and headed to Terminus where I would explain to the people there of the situation and go from there where she could be prisoned, rehabilitated, etc. I just don't see when it's ever acceptable to just execute a kid. I just can't accept that supposedly good people could do this even in their situation.

Yeah but with you approach, you have two "babies" to look after. Do you gag her to keep her from yelling out and attracting walkers? Night is the worst time, they have talked about this in the show. If she is tied up at night and walkers show up, do you think they can get her untied in all the mayhem? I am sure she is not going to be too helpful.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would have confiscated all her of any weapons and tied her up at nights and headed to Terminus where I would explain to the people there of the situation and go from there where she could be prisoned, rehabilitated, etc. I just don't see when it's ever acceptable to just execute a kid. I just can't accept that supposedly good people could do this even in their situation.

Its a tough situation though, clearly this kid was checked out to begin with. Playing with walkers / killing her sister. I wouldnt feel safe sleeping in the same room with Lizzie, for all I know she could possibly let walkers in during the night and have the entire group wiped out.

Carol also may be playing the Rick card, what if Lizzy killed Judith while they slept. The possibly of running into him is quite high from what it looks like, Rick would most likely kill Carol on the spot if he knew Judith was alive in her care.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

Who said they're good? That was a pretty big theme from last night's episode where the only people left alive aren't that good.

I don't buy that as you are drinking the syrup there. The Governor wasn't good but these people are just trying to survive.

They tried to portray Lizzie as losing it but I don't understand how she could go from caring for zombies to killing her sister in cold blood just to see her turn. There just wasn't enough shown to make us believe she was actually capable of such a heinous act. The show essentially treated them as disposable characters as a means for Carol and Tyrese to come full circle with the events of the prison and create some controversy with the all important season finale on the horizon. I get why they did it and it was smart but as a watcher I just don't think it was great story telling and more manipulation.

[Redliner]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would have confiscated all her of any weapons and tied her up at nights and headed to Terminus where I would explain to the people there of the situation and go from there where she could be prisoned, rehabilitated, etc. I just don't see when it's ever acceptable to just execute a kid. I just can't accept that supposedly good people could do this even in their situation.

I think this is the whole point. We are seeing that the reality of the situation is forcing people to commit acts that are way beyond the pale, and that "good" people really aren't good anymore simply because their preservation instincts are kicking in and they are reduced to doing what they have to do in order to ensure their own survival. In some groups (like the crew that found Darryl, or some of the Governor's people) this is much more overt and they openly display an aggressive approach to social complications, lack of empathy, and disregard for others. What this episode shows is that even the "good guys" are experiencing a similar shift, even though in some cases it is much more subtle. Carol summed it up perfectly when she told Tyreese to "Do what you have to do". This is how she has justified her actions and she has come to a point where she expects that others will deal with her the same way.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

performances are generally up and down on the TWD, but the two adults nailed it last night. and the show generally doesn't get enough credit for the parts of the direction that are strong besides acting. in my opinion the blocking, camera angles/movement, and lighting are excellent. there's more than a few Hollywood directors that could learn something from watching more cable.

Even that opening scene was pretty neat, how it initially looked like two girls playing in the front yard, but as they zoom in and focus, it becomes clear that there's a zombie out there. I thought that was pretty neat.

They've been nailing the last few openers with this episode and with Bob's opener in the last show.