Will Gretzky's numbers ever be broken?

[ClubFlames]

Originally Posted by getbak

Not unless the game changes significantly and scoring goes through the roof. As the game is played today, those big records are safe.



As a side note:

I'm surprised that Gretzky only had 91 GWGs in his career. Iginla is the Flames' franchise leader with 83. Add in his one GWG with Pittsburgh and 6 (wow) with Boston, and Iggy is only one GWG behind Gretzky in their careers.


Also...Ron Francis, over a PPG player and almost 1,800 career points, but still a career -10.

It's all those empty netters he scored.

/green text

[Party Elephant]

Pretty amazing that Lemieux is 8th all time in points despite only playing 915 games. Everyone else in the top 10 has at least 367 games on him. Makes you wonder how much higher he could've been had he not missed all those seasons.

[bubbsy]

what's amazing is i doubt a guy like crosby even cracks the top 10 all time.

[sun]

Yes.

[username]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Yeah I would say he is the single most dominant athlete at his chosen sport amongst all the other "all-time athletes' from various sports (Jordan, Woods, Pele, etc...).

I know this is a hockey forum but does Usain Bolt get any consideration???

[ClubFlames]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

what's amazing is i doubt a guy like crosby even cracks the top 10 all time.

I actually think Crosby ends up with 1700+ points (insert Schremp joke). Given his skill set and barring any major concussion issues or other injuries he has about 10 solid years left in him. He already has 750+ points in just over 500 games. So to think maybe another 800-1000 points is not outta the question for him.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

I find it more ridiculous that he's the all time leading scorer on assists alone. Gretzky might just be the greatest athlete ever.

not sure about outside of hockey, but i think there's a hard argument on what could have been had Mario Lemieux been healthy for more of his career

[Coach]

Originally Posted by username

I know this is a hockey forum but does Usain Bolt get any consideration???

When his record is twice as fast as the next closest guy?

[nik-]

Until half the league's defencemen and 75% of the goalies forget how to play, those records are safe.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

not sure about outside of hockey, but i think there's a hard argument on what could have been had Mario Lemieux been healthy for more of his career

Too many what ifs to say that Lemieux would have done it, but he is the one guy that could have done it. He played for weeks on a bad back, having somebody tie his own skates for him, just to keep his consecutive point streak going. He came back the same day he finished radiation treatments to resume leading the league in points. He came back after 3 years off and picked up where he left off. What an amazing talent, who benefited just as much as Gretzky to play in the era the did.

Neither guy would do now what they did in the 80s and 90s. It will take a significant shift in how the game is played for anybody to come close to breaking some of those records Gretzky set.

[wretched34]

Based on career production, had Lemieux stayed healthy, and played the same amount of games as Gretzky, he would have surpassed the Great One in goals, by 227, giving him the all time record of 1121. Gretzky would hold the assists record, by a margin of 284, leaving the points record to Gretzky by a margin of 57.
Lemieux scored at a 0.75GPG rate, compared to Gretzky's 0.60GPG. Gretzky however had 1.32APG compared to Lemieux's 1.12APG. Gretzky's PPG was 1.92, Lemieux's was 1.88.
By Far, the 2 greatest players of all time.

[Skaloper]

The game has changed dramatically and his numbers are probably never going to be broken.

You should be looking at comparing how much better Gretzky was to other others in his generation. There might be someone who comes along who's talent is above or equal to what Gretzky did even if the career points total doesn't support it.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by getbak

Not unless the game changes significantly and scoring goes through the roof. As the game is played today, those big records are safe.



As a side note:

I'm surprised that Gretzky only had 91 GWGs in his career. Iginla is the Flames' franchise leader with 83. Add in his one GWG with Pittsburgh and 6 (wow) with Boston, and Iggy is only one GWG behind Gretzky in their careers.


Also...Ron Francis, over a PPG player and almost 1,800 career points, but still a career -10.

The less depth that a team has the more that a player will have a greater opportunity to score a game winning goal. The Flames for a long time were effectively a team that had the entire offense centered around Iginla with little in the way of a supporting cast. The Oilers of Gretzky's era obviously had a much better supporting cast with multiple Hall of Fame players.

[BigT112]

Not a chance.

[trackercowe]

If not for three lockouts and three years in the KHL Jagr would have had a shot at most goals ever.

703 goals right now (191 behind Gretzky). There were 396 man games lost in Jagr's career (68 in the two shortened seasons, 328 in the four complete seasons). For his career Jagr has averaged a goal every two games (.4818 per game to be precise). So that's about 190 goals Jagr missed due to non-injury related forced. He also may have another 2-3 years left in him if he keeps at the same pace he's going at right now.

I am not saying it would have been a certainty, but clearly he would have been second all time, and near Wayne's final tally.

I also think Ovechkin has an outside shot at the record if he stays in the league until he's 42-43 years old. 416 goals today (478 from tying the record), right now he's scoring at a .6246 GPG pace. If he plays for say another 13 years he would need to average almost 37 goals a season (.45 a game). Obviously it's unlikely, but if he can get back to scoring 60+ for a few years the final number could very well be reachable. The same could probably be said for Stamkos, but it's a lot earlier in his career to conclude he's going to continue at the same pace, whereas in Ovechkin's case he's pretty much a lock to score 50+ every season.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by getbak

As a side note:

I'm surprised that Gretzky only had 91 GWGs in his career. Iginla is the Flames' franchise leader with 83. Add in his one GWG with Pittsburgh and 6 (wow) with Boston, and Iggy is only one GWG behind Gretzky in their careers.

I think you have to look at Games Played and Assists as big factors in there. For Game winning goals, there is only 1 available every game. And Gretzsky did not have as long of a career as others. Also to get all of those assists other guys must have been scoring allot, so they are going to pick up a few GWG.

Also in the first 4 years of Gretzksy career a smaller percentage of games were "Won" before over time was introduced. Meaning fewer GWGs were handed out.

[the_only_turek_fan]

In 2007-08 Alexander Ovechkin scored 65g. He would have had to score another 27 just to tie Gretzky.

The 163a, and 215p are not going to be broken by anyone in my lifetime.

[Coys1882]

His 50 goals in 39 games was it? That's a tough one to break.

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

If not for three lockouts and three years in the KHL Jagr would have had a shot at most goals ever.

703 goals right now (191 behind Gretzky). There were 396 man games lost in Jagr's career (68 in the two shortened seasons, 328 in the four complete seasons). For his career Jagr has averaged a goal every two games (.4818 per game to be precise). So that's about 190 goals Jagr missed due to non-injury related forced. He also may have another 2-3 years left in him if he keeps at the same pace he's going at right now.

I am not saying it would have been a certainty, but clearly he would have been second all time, and near Wayne's final tally.

I also think Ovechkin has an outside shot at the record if he stays in the league until he's 42-43 years old. 416 goals today (478 from tying the record), right now he's scoring at a .6246 GPG pace. If he plays for say another 13 years he would need to average almost 37 goals a season (.45 a game). Obviously it's unlikely, but if he can get back to scoring 60+ for a few years the final number could very well be reachable. The same could probably be said for Stamkos, but it's a lot earlier in his career to conclude he's going to continue at the same pace, whereas in Ovechkin's case he's pretty much a lock to score 50+ every season.

This. Jagr isn't far behind Yzerman, Dionne and Francis and should pass 1 or 2 of them if he keeps playing. Who knows, he could even challenge Howe and Messier if he plays for as long as Chelios did.

[stemit14]

Points... No chance. Goals.. Maybe if stamkos or Ovechkin play a long and healthy career. 50 goals in 39 games? Maybe stamkos in 4 years when he and druin are lighting up the league.