Malaysia Jet missing-Officials conclude crash in Indian ocean/all lives presumed lost

[Acey]

I made no mention of water in that post, but sure. Land implies potential radar coverage, and to evade it you have to be flying very low... I'm still unsure you can fly a 777 down low enough to not have anyone notice.

[JonDuke]

Originally Posted by Acey

... I'm still unsure you can fly a 777 down low enough to not have anyone notice.

I wasn't either until just reading this:
http://my.news.yahoo.com/mh370-flew-...011918423.html

MH370 flew as low as 1,500m to avoid detection, says paper

As the search for the missing flight MH370 enters its 10th day with few clues as to its whereabouts, the New Straits Times said today the Boeing 777-200ER dropped 5,000 feet (1,500m) to evade commercial radar detection.
In an exclusive story, the government-backed paper said investigators analysing MH370’s flight data revealed that the 200-tonne, fully laden twinjet descended 1,500m or even lower to evade commercial (secondary) radar coverage after it turned back from its flight path en route to Beijing.

Above bolded because we know how many times the government have shared accurate information.

Investigators poring over MH370’s flight data had said the plane had flown low and used “terrain masking” as it flew over the Bay of Bengal and headed north towards land, the NST reported.
Officials, who formed the technical team, were looking into the possibility that whoever was piloting the jet at that time had taken advantage of the busy airways over the Bay of Bengal and stuck to a commercial route to avoid raising the suspicion of those manning primary (military) radars, the paper said.
“The person who had control over the aircraft has a solid knowledge of avionics and navigation and left a clean track. It passed low over Kelantan, that was true,” the NST quoted an anonymous official as saying.
“Terrain masking” refers to an ability to position an aircraft so there is natural earth hiding it from the radio waves sent from the radar system. It is a technique mostly used in aerial combat where military pilots would fly at extremely low elevations upon normally hilly or mountainous terrain to “mask” their approach.
Experts said flying a Boeing 777 in such a way would be dangerous, stressing the airframe and possibly causing those on board to be air sick and suffer from spatial disorientation.
Flight MH370 flew for an estimated eight hours and the authorities believe it would have flew over two additional countries besides Malaysia, although it's not clear which ones.

I think it's interesting they say the plane turned north while recent news reports right now seem to be shifting the focus south toward Australia.
Also the fact that it flew over 2 additional countries?
So...which ones? India and Pakistan before reaching Iran? Bangladesh and Bhutan before China?
Why can they make that statement but not be clear as to which 2 other countries?

[Acey]

Assuming it's quiet, I can hear aircraft descending to land at Calgary from Lethbridge, when they're 25,000 feet up. Very faint, but possible. Nobody heard a 777 at 1,500 metres?

[BlackArcher101]

Ugh, the wording is so weird in that article. Every time I see "the plane dropped 5,000 ft" I assume they descended a total of 5,000, not descended TO 5,000 ft ASL.

[JonDuke]

Originally Posted by Acey

Assuming it's quiet, I can hear aircraft descending to land at Calgary from Lethbridge, when they're 25,000 feet up. Very faint, but possible. Nobody heard a 777 at 1,500 metres?

There were quite a few reports of people claiming to see it flying very low.

I saw a Google map with dotted areas representing the numerous reports, but can't find it now. Here's an article though:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/missing-mal...to-sea-1439730

[nik-]

That yahoo article is odd. How are they terrain masking at 5000 feet and over the ocean? Unless they mean it just descended when it was over Malaysia? What a sloppy article.

Edit: I see it's just a repost from the Malaysian Insider. Poor translation I guess.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Acey

I made no mention of water in that post, but sure. Land implies potential radar coverage, and to evade it you have to be flying very low... I'm still unsure you can fly a 777 down low enough to not have anyone notice.

I was just commenting on your words on the Poseidon and it's search capability.

"If they can't find her in the P-8A, you might as well throw in the towel."

This aircraft can find a kids turd in a large lake but if that turd is in a land based toilet it's useless!

I do agree that it should be a tough task to make it threw landmass and then even land the damn thing and hide it but then again two helicopters managed to fly into a middle of a city, land/even crash undetected and still kill bin laden and get his body and family out pretty much undetected.

Time will (or should I say hopefully) will tell this crazy story.

[Tsawwassen]

Originally Posted by JonDuke

There were quite a few reports of people claiming to see it flying very low.

Friends grandparents were saying that reports of people seeing or hearing the aircraft reminds them of the Avro Arrow flying at a very low altitude and people back then swearing that they knew it was the Avro. There has never been any hard evidence that it did happen.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by JonDuke

There were quite a few reports of people claiming to see it flying very low.

In the water, yes... but the lack of verifiable claims of people in India or elsewhere having seen it is concerning.

[carom]

Thought I would share what IMO is an interesting article:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...terrorist.html

They quickly learned—as no doubt all of Shah’s friends knew—that the pilot was a strong supporter of Anwar Ibrahim’s People’s Justice Party. ... On Sunday, the U.K. and Malaysian press treated the revelation with the shock you might reserve for damning evidence. Shah was described—by an unnamed source—as a “fanatical supporter of the country’s opposition leader.” Elsewhere, he is described (apparently by unnamed police sources) as “fervent” and “strident” in his political convictions. More than a week after the Boeing 777 disappeared, we lack a motive, a clear suspect, or even a crime scene, but we have our “Anwar Ibrahim connection.” That is Malaysian politics.

A fanatical supporter of Anwar Ibrahim does sound scary—as long as you know nothing about him.

[Northendzone]

a friend of mine told me, he had heard from somewhere that a plane was spotted in teh area doing loop-de-loops.........

[JonDuke]

Originally Posted by carom

Thought I would share what IMO is an interesting article:

To add to that...

The captain was apparently at the court for that trial just 7 hours before flight 370 took off. At the trial, opposition leader, Anwar Ibrahim, was sentenced to five years in prison for sodomy, after his acquittal for the same charge was overturned.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Originally Posted by carom

Thought I would share what IMO is an interesting article:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...terrorist.html

this article needs to be read. It will give you a glimpse into malaysian politics and explains the corruption by the ruling party, and what legal means the opposition is doing to better the country.

I think the ruling party is corrupt enough to try to pin the blame on this event on the opposition in the attempt to bring the party down.

[JonDuke]

PRESS CONFERENCE - 4am Calgary Time March 17, 2014

• Radar, SAR assets and plan were requested from countries in search corridor,
• 26 countries involved in SAR operation.
• Southern corridor split to 2. Australia & Malaysia will lead the search in these areas.
• Search in both corridors has started.
• Malaysia navy has deployed vessels to southern corridor.
• US Navy’s P8A will be travelling to Perth to assist in SAR operation.
• Civil aviation from China will be joining the investigation team, as well as French counterparts.
• Investigation on all crew including ground staff started on 8 March. Pilot & co-pilot house was revisited at 15 March. Flight simulator was taken away. FBI, Interpol is working on investigation.

Q&A

• Authorities decline to comment on the ongoing investigation on pilot & co-pilot.
• The pilot did not request to fly together. It was based on rosters.
• 4 tonnes of mangosteen was the answer when probed by journalist on potentially high value cargo on the aircraft.
• Possibility of the aircarft was remotely controlled is low.
• ACARS was turned off at Kota Bahru, transponder was turned off at IGARI waypoint.
• MAS has tightened their security procedures.
• All emergency system must be checked & armed prior to take off.
• Don’t have any evidence from Telco on the possibilities of call/text being made after the aircraft have turned west yet. Authorities are still going through the records.
• Background check on passenger is still going on.
• Initial investigation indicates the last communication was from the co-pilot, at 1:19 am MYT.
• Last ACARS communication was disabled at 1:07 am MYT, it was supposed to transmit new data after 30 minutes. Authorities do not know the exact time ACARS was switched off.
• ATC have no indication that the aircraft ACARS was turned off.
• The last 6 ping back was from geo-satellite. No coordinate could be derived from the data.
• From the point of 8:11 am MYT ping back, the aircraft should have additional 30 minutes flight time, based on the flight speed.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by JonDuke

ATC have no indication that the aircraft ACARS was turned off.

There is no way for ATC to get this type of indication anyway.

[squiggs96]

Given the similarities of the two threads, what happens first:

1. Flames announce finalized new arena plans
2. The MH370 plane/wreckage is found

Mods, can we have a poll?

[Hack&Lube]

If the aircraft dropped to 1,500 feet, wouldn't it's range be significantly reduced?

Planes cruise at high altitude for fuel efficiency due to thinner air.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

If the aircraft dropped to 1,500 feet, wouldn't it's range be significantly reduced?

Planes cruise at high altitude for fuel efficiency due to thinner air.

Yes, and I believe the SAR teams have been able to estimate the speed of travel and altitude based on the satellite pings.

Originally Posted by JonDuke

PRESS CONFERENCE - 4am Calgary Time March 17, 2014

4 tonnes of mangosteen was the answer when probed by journalist on potentially high value cargo on the aircraft.

If true, this would probably go down as the most complicated way to steal fruit ever...

[nik-]

Malaysian officials clarify that the ACARS may not have actually been turned off before the last communique.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/wo...t.html?hp&_r=0

[Ducay]

I'd say my money (like most people) is on the southern corridor. Just look at the northern one, it makes no sense, based on the sheer volume and strength of military radar in that direction. Surely one of those nations would have noticed something. As well, if they wanted to get to China, they could have easily maintained their original course until into Chinese ATC area and then diverted.