The Kids: Expectations vs. Reality

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Fire in the disco

I'm still a little surprised and I think it speaks volumes of Burkes dislike for Baertschi that he hasn't been called up.

I'm one of the few who hasn't bought into the "attitude issues". I'm starting to wonder if Sven will get another chance with the big club. Sure hope I'm wrong though. It's clear that the fan bases expectations have been heavily tempered, but I still think the kids the real deal. A .5 ppg game pace thus far in his career added to the chemistry he and Monahan had earlier in the season makes it a little frustrating to see him not getting a chance, considering we have 6 forwards called up at the moment.

Conroy commented on it. Said Baertschi will probably get a call up but that he is finally starting to play really well in the AHL and they don't want to derail that progress.

Not sure how his injury player into a possible call up though.

I think Baertschi needs to show he is hungry in camp. He coasted through the prospect and main camps. I think that left a bad taste in the mouths of management and coaching. A hungry showing next season will set things right I think.

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[Stanathan]

I'm glad it seems like they are doing the right things for his development now that Feaater is gone. Hopefully he can bulk up a tad and show some aggression at the NHL level like Byron has.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Where are our Kane's and Toews?

Gaudreau and Monahan.

[zoom]

i would think if Burke, Hartley or both didn't like Sven, they would have him on the Flames right now to increase his value for a draft day trade.

By taking the 'tough love' approach, i think they trying to shape his game into what they want for a longer relationship. Right now, he is a guy that can't crack the lineup of a bottom 5 team with a slew of injuries. Not exactly maximizing asset value if they are looking to ship him out.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Gaudreau and Monahan.

I am not trying to start a debate about those guys because I like both of them. And I hope these guys do end up as stars. But just about every team has their Gaudreau and Monahan level prospects (and better). Very few of them end up as NHL top stars. Plus, they are adding these guys to established teams.

Colorado just added Mackinnon to a roster that includes Landeskog and Duchene. For example. This rebuild is just started.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I am not trying to start a debate about those guys because I like both of them. And I hope these guys do end up as stars. But just about every team has their Gaudreau and Monahan level prospects (and better). Very few of them end up as NHL top stars. Plus, they are adding these guys to established teams.

Colorado just added Mackinnon to a roster that includes Landeskog and Duchene. For example. This rebuild is just started.

Monahan is already putting up numbers comparable to Toews rookie year with not near the talent around him and there is not another hockey prospect in anybody elses club with the hockey IQ and raw talent of Gaudreau. If it was not for him being small he would be the top ranked prospect in all of hockey. You can't teach the skills that Johnny naturally has.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I am not trying to start a debate about those guys because I like both of them. And I hope these guys do end up as stars. But just about every team has their Gaudreau and Monahan level prospects (and better). Very few of them end up as NHL top stars. Plus, they are adding these guys to established teams.

Colorado just added Mackinnon to a roster that includes Landeskog and Duchene. For example. This rebuild is just started.

That's completely untrue. You're BSing for hyperbole.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I am not trying to start a debate about those guys because I like both of them. And I hope these guys do end up as stars. But just about every team has their Gaudreau and Monahan level prospects (and better). Very few of them end up as NHL top stars. Plus, they are adding these guys to established teams.

Colorado just added Mackinnon to a roster that includes Landeskog and Duchene. For example. This rebuild is just started.

I'd be curious to see you list every team's Monahan or better prospect (player under 21 with less than 160 games of experience, I think is fair)

I'm having trouble thinking of many, 29 seems like an extreme stretch.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by saillias

That's completely untrue. You're BSing for hyperbole.

Pick up THN Future Watch. They have Gaudreau ranked as the 29 best prospect with fewer than 50 NHL games played. They have Calgary ranked at 23 for prospects. Monahan is 8 in rookie scoring and 5 players were selected before him less than a year ago. So yes, other teams have their own list of equal or better prospects.

Colorado added Mackinnon to go with O'reilly, Landeskog, and Duchene. Tampa is sitting on Drouin and other high end prospects to join Stamkos and company. Minnesota is sitting on an army of kids led by Granlund to join a great core. Etc.

The hyperbole is that all of Calgary prospects are going to meet potential and be stars allowing us to leap frog other teams with established young players and their own great list of prospects. Monahan and Gaudreau are going to be our Toews and Kane? Two of the best NHL players in the world? Maybe. But the odds say no.

I love Monahan, Gaudreau, and the like. Some prospect sites have the Flames in the top 10 and it's great to see. But this rebuild still has a long ways to go.

[strombad]

Hmmm? But you said EVERY team has prospects equal or better to Monahan? Please expand.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by strombad

Hmmm? But you said EVERY team has prospects equal or better to Monahan? Please expand.

One, your being too literal. Two, I actually didn't say that, try reading it. And three, stop trying to pick a syntax fight, that silly. Like I tell my 9 year old ''if you understand the point don't bother correcting someone. It's annoying. "

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Gaudreau and Monahan.

Gaudreau and Monahan as Kane and Toews has this thread veering away from reality.

[PeteMoss]

Of those 8 guys ahead of Monahan in the rookie scoring race, if we offered Monahan to those team one on one for any of those guys besides MacKinnon, they'd break a speed record agreeing to it.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by kehatch

One, your being too literal. Two, I actually didn't say that, try reading it. And three, stop trying to pick a syntax fight, that silly. Like I tell my 9 year old ''if you understand the point don't bother correcting someone. It's annoying. "

Actually you did:

Originally Posted by kehatch

But just about every team has their Gaudreau and Monahan level prospects (and better).

Sorry, I miss the "just about" part, which probably brings your number from 30 down to, what? 26 teams? As some guy tells his 9 year old, "if you understand the point don't bother correcting someone, it's annoying."

You denied using hyperbole, then you said you're being taken too literally.

So what is it? Do 25-30 teams have prospects that are good or better than Monahan? Or we're you being hyperbolic?

[thymebalm]

It's undeniable that this is the best prospect group the Flames have had since the lockout.

Whether anyone in the group (be it Monahan, Gaudreau, Arnold, Granlund, Baertschi etc) reaches that elite level of Toews/Kane is yet to be seen, but the odds of having an elite player in that group is the best its been in at least a decade.

We can't predict the future, but we can look at the past and conclude with a high degree of certainty that our prospect base is on the rise.

I think of the current group, Granlund, Monahan and Gaudreau have the highest ceilings, and I'm not afraid to put that ceiling at 1st line NHLers.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by kehatch

The hyperbole is that all of Calgary prospects are going to meet potential and be stars allowing us to leap frog other teams with established young players and their own great list of prospects.

And who is saying this?
The hyperbole here is your misrepresentation of what is simple normal fan excitement.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Gaudreau and Monahan as Kane and Toews has this thread veering away from reality.

Always helpful posts.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

And who is saying this?
The hyperbole here is your misrepresentation of what is simple normal fan excitement.

I am not trying hard to rain on anyone's parade. But the post is to match fans expectations with the current set of prospects.

When people like me suggested we mange expectations RE Baertschi we were sneered at. When we suggested a reality check RE Nemisz we weren't real fans.

Gaudreau has a LONG way to go to prove he can be an NHL player let alone a Kane level player. Monahan isn't Toews yet.

The point is simple. We have done a GREAT job in improving the prospect pool. We have players to be excited about. I am on board. But my expectation (RE the purpose of the post) is we are at the start of a rebuild and have a long ways to go.

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I am not trying hard to rain on anyone's parade. But the post is to match fans expectations with the current set of prospects.

When people like me suggested we mange expectations RE Baertschi we were sneered at. When we suggested a reality check RE Nemisz we weren't real fans.

Gaudreau has a LONG way to go to prove he can be an NHL player let alone a Kane level player. Monahan isn't Toews yet.

The point is simple. We have done a GREAT job in improving the prospect pool. We have players to be excited about. I am on board. But my expectation (RE the purpose of the post) is we are at the start of a rebuild and have a long ways to go.

You are under-selling Gaudreau. Everyone in the business has him making the NHL. He doesn't have a long way to go, he's riding an NCAA record 31-game scoring streak (previously set by Paul Kariya). He's leagues above the rest of his competition and he comes from a school that regularly produces NHLers.

Whether he becomes elite or flickers and fades in the bigs is yet to be seen, but he's proven he's ready for the NHL and then some.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I am not trying hard to rain on anyone's parade. But the post is to match fans expectations with the current set of prospects.

When people like me suggested we mange expectations RE Baertschi we were sneered at. When we suggested a reality check RE Nemisz we weren't real fans.

Gaudreau has a LONG way to go to prove he can be an NHL player let alone a Kane level player. Monahan isn't Toews yet.

The point is simple. We have done a GREAT job in improving the prospect pool. We have players to be excited about. I am on board. But my expectation (RE the purpose of the post) is we are at the start of a rebuild and have a long ways to go.

Revisionist history and more hyperbole on your part. Picks like Nemisz were criticized from day 1 by many - I'm always amazed when posters claim to have been these "lones voices in the wilderness" while the rest of the board was blind to reality. Every day on this site there is a wide variety of opinions about each and every player and prospect discussed.

But I suppose you can group "people like you" in terms of those that take the pessimistic viewpoint - and probably more often than not you will be right about a player - because more often than not prospects fail to become impact NHLers. The odds of becoming an impact player are very slim. Or to put it another way: the odds favor those that take the negative view. So if you want to pat yourself on the back about being right about Nemisz (Sven is too early to call) then I guess congrats. You projected that a late 20s pick didn't become an NHLer. Woot.

People here are well aware of what Johnny Hockey is and the long odds he has to over come - your concerns are hardly ground breaking or news. You've picked up on a couple of comments about Kane/Toews that are probably too optimistic and are suddenly using that to suggest that a lot of fans are blindly optimistic.

But the bigger point is this - sometimes it is fun as a fan to get excited. I'll take that any day of the week over someone who takes a crap over anyone who chooses to get fired up over a prospect like Gaudreau.

Sports is supposed to be fun.