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Old 03-12-2014, 05:53 PM   #661
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If there's one thing I've learned in this life, it's that mines are always cleaned up after a conflict.
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Old 03-12-2014, 05:55 PM   #662
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If there's one thing I've learned in this life, it's that mines are always cleaned up after a conflict.
I see what you did there................I think
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Old 03-12-2014, 09:04 PM   #663
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A Crimean Tartar leader recently had a conversation with Putin and apparently the Russian leader told him the dissolution of the USSR was illegal.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/putin...-been-illegal/

Fantastic cold war era mindset the Russian leader has here if true.

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Old 03-12-2014, 10:59 PM   #664
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Dispatch 7 from Vice.

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Old 03-12-2014, 11:29 PM   #665
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Originally Posted by FlameOn View Post
A Crimean Tartar leader recently had a conversation with Putin and apparently the Russian leader told him the dissolution of the USSR was illegal.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/putin...-been-illegal/

Fantastic cold war era mindset the Russian leader has here if true.

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He is right. USSR dissolution was illegal in the same sense that US independence war was illegal. Most countries birthes and deaths are illegal.
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Old 03-13-2014, 07:36 PM   #666
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Lots of pretty incredible photos here: http://imgur.com/a/EngYb

Including...



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Old 03-14-2014, 12:55 AM   #667
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Russia agreed to let OSCE observes in Crimea, however there's no particular mention about monitoring the referendum.
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Old 03-14-2014, 06:05 AM   #668
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Old 03-14-2014, 07:38 AM   #669
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^ sorry but the guy spraying windex from a squirt bottle towards other people while police hold him back at the end of that video made me lol
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Old 03-14-2014, 11:28 AM   #670
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So I am a little bit concerned at what is going to happen after this weekends referendum.

We all know what the outcome will be:

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John McCain
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Congrats to Kim Jong Un on his narrow election victory - expect similar result in #Crimea ... http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...ction/6247491/


But what we don't know is how the Russians will react once they "win" the referendum.



Ukraine is reporting it is at about 50,000/60,000 "National Guard" troops it needs. 2 weeks of training is all you get. Yikes.

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Old 03-14-2014, 01:07 PM   #671
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Looks like Russia may invade Ukraine proper

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...onia-says.html
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Old 03-14-2014, 01:09 PM   #672
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Looks like Russia may invade Ukraine proper

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...onia-says.html
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Old 03-14-2014, 01:22 PM   #673
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Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda View Post
Looks like Russia may invade Ukraine proper

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...onia-says.html
Nothing like this in Russian media. The general tone is that Russia is setting up to greet its new member Crimea in a happy peaceful referendum.
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Old 03-14-2014, 01:27 PM   #674
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Nothing like this in Russian media. The general tone is that Russia is setting up to greet its new member Crimea in a happy peaceful referendum.
Oh wait, you mean the Russian media isn't advertising the Russian militrIes plans.......

Ok never mind nothing to see here.....
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Old 03-14-2014, 01:33 PM   #675
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Nothing like this in Russian media. The general tone is that Russia is setting up to greet its new member Crimea in a happy peaceful referendum.
Russia doesn't exactly have the best track record informing people what they're plans are.
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Old 03-14-2014, 01:34 PM   #676
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Oh wait, you mean the Russian media isn't advertising the Russian militrIes plans.......

Ok never mind nothing to see here.....
I am not pushing any opinion through, I am just reporting what's going on in Russia and our media.

That said the original interview is just a statement by Estonian defensive minister urging the west to play harder with Putin. He provided no arguments nevermind evidence that Russia is going to invade the rest of Ukraine.
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Old 03-14-2014, 01:56 PM   #677
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He is right. USSR dissolution was illegal in the same sense that US independence war was illegal. Most countries birthes and deaths are illegal.
Well the formation of ussr was illegal. Nothing like killing the royal family
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Old 03-14-2014, 02:09 PM   #678
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Well the formation of ussr was illegal. Nothing like killing the royal family
It sure was. In fact, I don't think that the word "illegal" should, in general, be applied to such events. Laws usually exist within the country. There are no legal procedures for creating and dissolving the country. Laws are smaller than country so to speak and the process of countries emerging and folding was never a legal process in history of the mankind. Scotland may set a new era precedent, but if you look at any country that ever existed, your best bet is that its birth and death were "illegal" and were accompanied by wars and revolutions.
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Old 03-14-2014, 07:53 PM   #679
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It sure was. In fact, I don't think that the word "illegal" should, in general, be applied to such events. Laws usually exist within the country. There are no legal procedures for creating and dissolving the country. Laws are smaller than country so to speak and the process of countries emerging and folding was never a legal process in history of the mankind. Scotland may set a new era precedent, but if you look at any country that ever existed, your best bet is that its birth and death were "illegal" and were accompanied by wars and revolutions.
The thing is Putin is introducing a lot of false moral equivalencies and misinformation into his discussions. Russia's invasion of Ukraine for example was done under the pretense of "Crimean self defense militia units" which, as of yesterday, Putin still maintains (though elements of his own government and troops on the ground confirms) despite having widespread proof that they are VDV/Spetsnaz. This is a direct violation of the Geneva convention as it can be viewed as a false flag operation given the specific use of soldiers without insignia. Violation of national law during the domestic creation and dissolution of a state is one thing, violation of another sovereign nations laws and international treaty to force dissolution of a country is another. Putin doesn't seem to see a difference here given the common Soviet past of the two countries.

Another bit of false equivalence Putin brings up a lot is Western intervention into other countries justifying his own use of force. Western intervention has never been about claim to territory yet here Putin is pushing laws through the Duma to "simplify" the annexation.

Sadly the fact that many news outlets still refer to those troops on the ground as Pro-Russian forces instead of Russian troops shows how effective Putin's communication strategy is.

Last edited by FlameOn; 03-14-2014 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 03-14-2014, 08:17 PM   #680
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The cops arm-linking in that video really deserve a lot of praise.

A thin wall between two groups of angry people, one obviously a lot larger then the other. Fire crackers going off behind you, harmless, but you don't know what it is until it goes off.

Steel face, not showing who they support, when I am sure they have their own anger, thoughts and ideas of who is in the right.

Seems not possible, but we may still escape this with only the bloodshed from the first day.
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