[Trade] Reto Berra to the Avs for a *2014 2nd round pick*

[PeteMoss]

Its a good thing Roy appears to be a good coach because judging by his two trades made this season he may be slightly insane as a GM.

[bax]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Its a good thing Roy appears to be a good coach because judging by his two trades made this season he may be slightly insane as a GM.

I don't think he is the GM. Isn't it still Sherman or whoever?

[albertGQ]

Isn't Roy also an executive? President of hockey operations or something like that?

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Isn't Roy also an executive? President of hockey operations or something like that?

He is currently the head coach and Vice President of Hockey Operations. Joe Sakic is the executive vice president of hockey ops, which would explain them working in tandem often.

http://avalanche.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=671796

[dying4acup]

From the Colorado perspective, I think they assume JSG is retiring, so he needed to be replaced. This summer they planned on (and still might) drafting a goalie in the 2nd round or later (later now if they still do). In doing that, they would have had to also acquired a backup by trade or free agency, and likely paid more for an NHL ready goalie.

So in essence for them, they may have killed 2 birds with one stone. They picked up an NHL ready goalie now, with upside, locked him up for cheap (relatively close to an ELC) and it's possibly (not sure about terms) a 2-way deal.

So they got the goalie they needed for now and later, and may have paid less than they would have to draft 2 guys to do the same jobs.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I liked Berra because he was so quick for a big guy. Guy gave up big rebounds and played overly-aggressive, but these are probably fixable issues.

Sure, Patrick Roy has been (arguably) the best goalie in the last 30 years - definitely in the top 3 for the sake of argument. I am sure he is able to spot someone he thinks can become a good starter.

However, it is rumored that Francois Allaire was the guy that really wanted Berra. Here is the Avs' link for his experience:

http://avalanche.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=90804

He probably saw enough of Berra to really like him, and feel confident enough that he can fine-tune Berra's game to be a competent starter (maybe more?).

I don't think the Avs did this just to ensure they get a backup - you can pick up a reasonable backup in the off-season every year, especially when you are seen as a playoff team on the rise. They obviously really liked Berra, and I would infer that to mean they feel he can become a legitimate starter.

I think he is already a 'decent' backup - looking back at the Flames' long list of backups, he has probably been the best of the bunch (though Karlsson had a good 1st season I thought).

I, for one, will be looking forward to seeing Berra's development and progress. If he makes it and becomes a star in the NHL, it doesn't mean that the Flames were 'stupid' and got ripped off - he may never have become a star on the Flames' team. Maybe Giguere wouldn't have been that good in Anaheim if it wasn't for Allaire too!

[strombad]

Originally Posted by theoforever

The only ignorance was that of stats, since you didn't know those.
There is zero supporting evidence that Roy would not have positive effect on Berra. The evidence is sparse but is there to point to contrary to your opinion.

JSG resurgence was reported by radio/tv guys, stats prove it.
You can go one more year back with JSG stats too.

No argument about Varlamov's numbers?

The team is doing better because Roy is doing a good job coaching, goalies are doing better for the same reason. What's the problem?

I know of the stats, thanks.

As I said, there is zero evidence to suggest Roy is the reason for Varlamov/Giguere's improvement, anything suggesting otherwise is anecdotal at best.

If you want to argue that Allaire (who is the one that actually works with Varlamov and Giguere) had a positive effect, then MAYBE it's debatable, but what you're suggesting is founded solely in opinion, and nothing else.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by strombad

I know of the stats, thanks.

As I said, there is zero evidence to suggest Roy is the reason for Varlamov/Giguere's improvement, anything suggesting otherwise is anecdotal at best.

If you want to argue that Allaire (who is the one that actually works with Varlamov and Giguere) had a positive effect, then MAYBE it's debatable, but what you're suggesting is founded solely in opinion, and nothing else.

This entire exchange is an opinion, yours and mine.
You have zero evidence to support your point of view, so you are just talking.

Should we take your word that Varlamov is not having a carrier year.
That JSG is not having a very good year.

And that Coaches and Goalie Coaches have no place in hockey, since as you put they have minimal impact.

[dying4acup]

The one main advantage that Roy and Allaire have with goalies is the evaluation of the mental side.

While many good scouts can see the raw skills of goalies, I believe they can, even from a distance, evaluate how a goalie reacts to adversity and how a goalie reacts to coaching.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

The one main advantage that Roy and Allaire have with goalies is the evaluation of the mental side.

While many good scouts can see the raw skills of goalies, I believe they can, even from a distance, evaluate how a goalie reacts to adversity and how a goalie reacts to coaching.

How from a distance can they evaluate how a goaltender reacts to coaching unless they are watching say Berra practice with the Flames?

Berra has all the physical tools and appeared to progress as the season went on but every time you thought he was turning into a legit NHL goaltender he would let in a few soft or average goals in the 3rd period of a game. Combine that with his age and a suspect glove hand and I don't blame the Flames for moving on when Ramo is signed for another season and Ortio looks to already have better fundamentals than Berra.

That said Berra seemed like a good guy and I hope he does well in Colorado and maybe the trade can be a win for him as the 2nd round pick is definitely a win for the Flames.

[Hack&Lube]

What I've read seems to indicate that it was Colorado's goalie coach Allaire that was interested in Berra. Berra worked with Allaire in Europe when Allaire ran goalie camps there.

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

How from a distance can they evaluate how a goaltender reacts to coaching unless they are watching say Berra practice with the Flames?

Berra has all the physical tools and appeared to progress as the season went on but every time you thought he was turning into a legit NHL goaltender he would let in a few soft or average goals in the 3rd period of a game. Combine that with his age and a suspect glove hand and I don't blame the Flames for moving on when Ramo is signed for another season and Ortio looks to already have better fundamentals than Berra.

That said Berra seemed like a good guy and I hope he does well in Colorado and maybe the trade can be a win for him as the 2nd round pick is definitely a win for the Flames.

Thought the same thing EE then heard or read can't remember exactly that Allaire apparently watched Berra in the Swiss League very closely that's where the relationship comes from I think.

[PeteMoss]

Allaire is fine and all, but Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur (and even Giguere) were found and mentored a long time ago. Don't forget he was with the Leafs when they decided to get Jonas Gustavsson who did not pan out in the least (another tall European goalie). Its not like he's some goalie whisperer.

The main issue with all of this is there are competing with no one for Berra's services. There is no need to trade a 2nd round pick for the guy or to sign him to a 3 year deal.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Allaire is fine and all, but Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur (and even Giguere) were found and mentored a long time ago. Don't forget he was with the Leafs when they decided to get Jonas Gustavsson who did not pan out in the least (another tall European goalie). Its not like he's some goalie whisperer.

The main issue with all of this is there are competing with no one for Berra's services. There is no need to trade a 2nd round pick for the guy or to sign him to a 3 year deal.

He's now a pretty solid backup goalie in Detroit.

They believe in Berra - and effectively, are signing him to a 3 year ELC (without it actually being an ELC due to age).

Low risk, high reward. Berra has potential, Colorado believes in that potential.

It's Joe Sakic and Patrick Roy - if any of you actually believe you have a better grasp on the game of hockey at the NHL level than those two...well, it's not really possible to have a reasonable debate with you over the positives and negatives of Berra's game.

I think we saw a lot of positives to Berra's game in the (29?) games he played for us. He's definitely raw, and I think the biggest problem with his game was how he handled specific angles. Not surprising, seeing as he came over from a league that I believe used the larger international rink size. That's an adjustment that can be coached - and from what we saw of his time in Calgary, Berra is a likable (and probably coachable) guy who is good in the locker room/well liked by his teammates - which is also an important aspect of being a backup goalie.

Goalie development is completely unpredictable. Sakic and Roy (and Allaire) want to invest in a goalie they believe in, it's far from a crazy move. Maybe moving a 2nd round pick is "risky", but there's no more risk involved with Berra than using that 2nd round pick to choose a player.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by strombad

I know of the stats, thanks.

As I said, there is zero evidence to suggest Roy is the reason for Varlamov/Giguere's improvement, anything suggesting otherwise is anecdotal at best.

If you want to argue that Allaire (who is the one that actually works with Varlamov and Giguere) had a positive effect, then MAYBE it's debatable, but what you're suggesting is founded solely in opinion, and nothing else.

Wow dude you want the guy to show you evidence that a coach has helped 2 goalies play better? That is literally impossible to do. You act as your opinion is so highly regarded it doesn't need "evidence" to support it.

The Avs are a much better coached team. Watching them play is all the evidence you need. The last 3 or so years they couldn't play defence worth crap.

[albertGQ]

Do we know what the terms of his 3 year deal are yet?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by bax

I don't think he is the GM. Isn't it still Sherman or whoever?

Roy and Sakic run the show. Sherman is little more than an empty suit.

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Allaire is fine and all, but Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur (and even Giguere) were found and mentored a long time ago. Don't forget he was with the Leafs when they decided to get Jonas Gustavsson who did not pan out in the least (another tall European goalie). Its not like he's some goalie guru

Well, he is the best goalie coach of all time so it's about as close as you can get. Also, apparently in Toronto Burke and Co were very hands on and wouldn't let Allaire do his job the way he really wanted, which was why he left.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

He's now a pretty solid backup goalie in Detroit.

They believe in Berra - and effectively, are signing him to a 3 year ELC (without it actually being an ELC due to age).

Low risk, high reward. Berra has potential, Colorado believes in that potential.

It's Joe Sakic and Patrick Roy - if any of you actually believe you have a better grasp on the game of hockey at the NHL level than those two...well, it's not really possible to have a reasonable debate with you over the positives and negatives of Berra's game.

Better shut down CP if this is our new standard to have reasonable debate.

And of course we have to ignore that the Blues who are pretty well managed had no interest in bringing him over to North America.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by $ven27

Well, he is the best goalie coach of all time so it's about as close as you can get. Also, apparently in Toronto Burke and Co were very hands on and wouldn't let Allaire do his job the way he really wanted, which was why he left.

He's the most well known that's for sure.