Ja’afari Law in Iraq (Legalized Religious Rape)

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Rathji

If a non-religious group suddenly said that they just want to hurt/kill/whatever all the gay people because they tend to have nicer living room decor than the rest of us, that would be better than the reasons the Westboro Baptist church uses?

Not better, but at least they were being up front about it.

When I was overseas dealing the with Croats and the Serbs, I always preferred the Serbs. Why? Because they were up front about there plans/intentions, they wanted to kill Croats. The Croats would talk about peaceful solutions, then proceed to mortar the village across the road from our positions.

Both sides want the same thing, to kill each other, but only one was upfront about it.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by polak

Here is a thought.

All religions are terrible and bring the worst out of people.

If we were to replace fundamentalist Islam with fundamentalist Jainism, I could live with that.

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Mother Theresa, Rabbi Schneerson, Dalai Lama and Aga Khan strongly disagree.

Mother Theresa doesn't belong in this list.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

If we were to replace fundamentalist Islam with fundamentalist Jainism, I could live with that.

There would still be fundamentalist Christians/Catholics. You could live with those?

[T@T]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Hitler's war had very little to do with religion. If you read Mein Kampf.

His war was about a desire for power, revenge, racist hatred of anything non aryan (including himself), living space, resources and rage.

Whether Hitler was christian or not was irrelevant in terms of his justification to slaughter millions.

Most of the largest and bloodiest conflicts of the last lets say 100 years had absolutely nothing to do with religion and everything to do with a desire for national power, or money or resources.

Even the current struggle between the radical Islamic groups and the West have less to do with following a religion and more to do with power.

Maybe you missed the part where I said:

"In the end Hitler was just a control freak terrorist with a country"

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by MattyC

There would still be fundamentalist Christians/Catholics. You could live with those?

That doesn't really have anything to do with the point I was making, which is that all religions don't necessarily bring out the worst in people. Yes, I'm actually throwing religion a bone here.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

That doesn't really have anything to do with the point I was making, which is that all religions don't necessarily bring out the worst in people. Yes, I'm actually throwing religion a bone here.

Fair, but you've had a few comments on the extremist Islamics without much mention of those closer to home.

If I could, I would like to rephrase Polak's original statement:

Religion has brought out the worst in humanity.

That's not to say that it hasn't done good things, but I would argue that the only ones that seem to have a net benefit are those that teach harmony and transcendance (Buddhism, Taoism, etc..) instead of conversion and saving. As the former tend to be imposed, often to violent reluctance. If people want to preach religious freedom, fighting to convert someone with the idea of "saving" them is using a good point of view to justify terrible things.

It could be argued that this is not a religious issue, but a power issue. And those heinous acts I refer too were commited with the intent on gaining power through the use of religion. While true, the idea that you can indoctrinate people to get behind this violence is the fundemental issue with religion.

It's true that are biggest, most recent events (WWI & II) came more from power grabs and the latest incarnation is more geared towards money/power issues, which is kind of a different topic.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Hitler's war had very little to do with religion. If you read Mein Kampf.

His war was about a desire for power, revenge, racist hatred of anything non aryan (including himself), living space, resources and rage.

Whether Hitler was christian or not was irrelevant in terms of his justification to slaughter millions.

The Second World War occurred because of Hitler's desire to "right the wrongs" (from his perspective) of Versailles and restore German honour and prestige after their humiliating defeat in The Great War. The Holocaust (which is a separate historical event to WWII despite happening during the same time period), occurred because Hitler was able to capitalize on the popular hatred of Jews fueled by hundreds of years of European antisemitism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christi...i_antisemitism

On April 26, 1933 Hitler declared during a meeting with Roman Catholic Bishop Wilhelm Berning (de) of Osnabrück:

“I have been attacked because of my handling of the Jewish question. The Catholic Church considered the Jews pestilent for fifteen hundred years, put them in ghettos, etc., because it recognized the Jews for what they were. In the epoch of liberalism the danger was no longer recognized. I am moving back toward the time in which a fifteen-hundred-year-long tradition was implemented. I do not set race over religion, but I recognize the representatives of this race as pestilent for the state and for the Church, and perhaps I am thereby doing Christianity a great service by pushing them out of schools and public functions.”

The transcript of this discussion contains no response by Bishop Berning. Martin Rhonheimer does not consider this unusual since, in his opinion, for a Catholic Bishop in 1933 there was nothing particularly objectionable "in this historically correct reminder".

The Nazis used Martin Luther's book, On the Jews and Their Lies (1543), to claim a moral righteousness for their ideology. Luther even went so far as to advocate the murder of those Jews who refused to convert to Christianity, writing that "we are at fault in not slaying them".

Archbishop Robert Runcie has asserted that: "Without centuries of Christian antisemitism, Hitler's passionate hatred would never have been so fervently echoed...because for centuries Christians have held Jews collectively responsible for the death of Jesus. On Good Friday Jews, have in times past, cowered behind locked doors with fear of a Christian mob seeking 'revenge' for deicide. Without the poisoning of Christian minds through the centuries, the Holocaust is unthinkable." The dissident Catholic priest Hans Küng has written that "Nazi anti-Judaism was the work of godless, anti-Christian criminals. But it would not have been possible without the almost two thousand years' pre-history of 'Christian' anti-Judaism..."

Emphasis added.

[burn_this_city]

That's why Nostra Aetate from Vatican II dropped the whole all the Jews are responsible for Deicide.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Fair, but you've had a few comments on the extremist Islamics without much mention of those closer to home.

I feel more or less the same way about fundamentalist Christianity, but felt that a) anyone who has seen my previous contributions on the subject knew that, and b) it wasn't relevant to the actual topic.

Both religions are being used to justify some pretty awful things, and while both have negative impacts on society. Fundamentalist Christianity might be more of a nuisance in our neck of the woods, but on a global scale, I have no problem saying that I think Islam is the bigger offender of the two.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Fundamentalist Christianity might be more of a nuisance in our neck of the woods, but on a global scale, I have no problem saying that I think Islam is the bigger offender of the two.

Not sure what the numbers are but it may depend on which century were talking about.

Either way, I feel like were on the same page.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Not sure what the numbers are but it may depend on which century were talking about.

Either way, I feel like were on the same page.

Pretty sure we are. And yeah, I was referring to present-day.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Pretty sure we are. And yeah, I was referring to present-day.

But what difference does the time period make? A lot of things have changed about the human race, but religious ideologies obviously haven't. Isn't that a serious issue? The unwillingness to change obvious faults and horrors within particularly these to religions seems borderline insane to me. I really have a difficult time understanding it.

[doctajones428]

Originally Posted by polak

Here is a thought.

All religions are terrible and bring the worst out of people.

I believe in God, I can't wait for him to bring out the worst in me

[puckluck2]

And they wanted Saddam dead. As much as I hated him, he was what they needed and what they need right now.

Same with Syria. Hate Assad but they need him for that country to remain a little sane.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by polak

Here is a thought.

All religions are terrible and bring the worst out of people.

How truly embarrassing that such an ignorant post got thanked by 13 people.

I guess atheism causes ignorance....using your logic of course.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

How truly embarrassing that such an ignorant post got thanked by 13 people.

Make that 14.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Make that 14.

Haha the average age of those who thanked that post is probably about 55.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Haha the average age of those who thanked that post is probably about 55.

Ageist post is ageist.

[Huntingwhale]

I thanked it because everyone else did so I felt obligated.

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by nik-

Muhammed was also basically a warlord for the last part of his life too. I'm not sure you can call your religion a religion of peace when your prophet himself is spreading the word with the sword.

Christians have done a lot of f'd up horrible things in the name of christianity, there's no doubt, but I don't think Jesus and John were rampaging through Judea.

Not true. Throughout the Quran, Allah(God) tells the Prophet that he is only to warn people, not force people to believe and that only God is responsible for dealing with people regarding their non-belief.

Example-Quran Ch.11 verse 12; "But you are only a warner. And Allah is Disposer of all things"