#RefundHartley

[troutman]

I'm serious when I say Hartley should be a coach of the year candidate. Who has done more with less?

[csnarpy]

i'm pretty sure Hartley saw a $25000 payroll increase, with a note saying "great job, laughed my ass off"

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by troutman

I'm serious when I say Hartley should be a coach of the year candidate. Who has done more with less?

Pretty sure overachieving by maybe 6 points doesn't merit coach of the year.

Colorado going from 2nd worst to 5th overall on the other hand.....

[Locke]

Originally Posted by csnarpy

i'm pretty sure Hartley saw a $25000 payroll increase, with a note saying "great job, laughed my ass off"

Yup. And a complimentary tie that he just cant seem to get tied...

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Pretty sure overachieving by maybe 6 points doesn't merit coach of the year.

Colorado going from 2nd worst to 5th overall on the other hand.....

Yeah, what a miracle

[Huntingwhale]

Letting Hartley go while the team plays like this would be a massive mistake, and I have to think that Burke knows it. Year 1 of a rebuild and all most fans wanted was a team that put forth effort every night, knowing full well the wins won't be as plentiful as years past. In that respect, the coaching staff has been a huge success. What kind of message would it send to the players if the new GM comes in and hires his own guy right away? I can guarantee that most of the guys, especially the younger guys would feel pretty deflated.

I would love nothing more then to see Hartley and his staff be here for when the team finally takes the next step and becomes competitive. Until the team starts tuning them out, keep him around.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Yeah, what a miracle

Did you predict it?

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Did you predict it?

Avs were more of a shameless tank than actually legit sucking like Edmonton or Florida.

[Gaskal]

Hartley starting McGrats again!!!

[moon]

Originally Posted by troutman

I'm serious when I say Hartley should be a coach of the year candidate. Who has done more with less?

He is not in the top 20 candidates and lucky if in the top 25.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by moon

He is not in the top 20 candidates and lucky if in the top 25.

What coaches have done more with less?

[moon]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

What coaches have done more with less?

Well not many coaches have less so obviously not many. Does that mean that guys that have done more with more are out?

I also don't think Hartley has done much so lots of coaches have done a lot more than Hartley has. The Flames were expected to be bottom 5 coming into the season and that is exactly where they are. The defensive play has been atrocious and not just because of a lack of talent there is a complete lack of understanding by many players what to do and as a whole the team looks lost out there most of the time. The PP has been awful as well and again not just because of a lack of talent but the way it is set up is a mess. The players seem to have little to no idea/plan on how to create chances out there.

The two areas I would say you can complement Hartley on is that the team gives effort most of the time (not quite as much as some would have you believe) and they seem willing to block shots. Not bad things to have for a team but far from being qualities that get a coach the Jack Adams award.

In terms of coaches who have clearly done a better job I would say:

Boudreau
Mclellan
Hitchcock
Richards
Quenville
Bylsma
Roy
Copper
Therien
Berube
Carlyle
Yeo
Maurice
Sutter
Ruff
Julien

Guys who have likely done better:

Vigneault
Tippett
Oates
Babcock
MacClean
DeBoer

Guys who have done similar job:

Trotz
Horacek
Nolan

Guys who have been worse:

Eakins
Tortarella
Muller
Capuano

Noel prior to being fired did horrific job so he obviously would have been in the bottom group.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by moon

Well not many coaches have less so obviously not many. Does that mean that guys that have done more with more are out?

I also don't think Hartley has done much so lots of coaches have done a lot more than Hartley has. The Flames were expected to be bottom 5 coming into the season and that is exactly where they are. The defensive play has been atrocious and not just because of a lack of talent there is a complete lack of understanding by many players what to do and as a whole the team looks lost out there most of the time. The PP has been awful as well and again not just because of a lack of talent but the way it is set up is a mess. The players seem to have little to no idea/plan on how to create chances out there.

The two areas I would say you can complement Hartley on is that the team gives effort most of the time (not quite as much as some would have you believe) and they seem willing to block shots. Not bad things to have for a team but far from being qualities that get a coach the Jack Adams award.

In terms of coaches who have clearly done a better job I would say:

Boudreau
Mclellan
Hitchcock
Richards
Quenville
Bylsma
Roy
Copper
Therien
Berube
Carlyle
Yeo
Maurice
Sutter
Ruff
Julien

Guys who have likely done better:

Vigneault
Tippett
Oates
Babcock
MacClean
DeBoer

Guys who have done similar job:

Trotz
Horacek
Nolan

Guys who have been worse:

Eakins
Tortarella
Muller
Capuano

Noel prior to being fired did horrific job so he obviously would have been in the bottom group.

Flames were expected to be bottom 2, not 5. Secondly, the mood on the team is upbeat, which is hard when you're learning, yet the competitive spirit is still there. I don't think he's Jack Adams worthy strictly due to standings, but I can poke holes in most of your top 20 compared to Hartley. Like how does Bylsma get a pass for what he's done with the roster he's been given?

[Gaskal]

We were projected to be dead last at the beginning of the season owing to a barren lack of talent - easily the worst team on paper - and a lot of youngsters and rookies as well. Hartley and the Flames are sitting in 5th last place now because they are overachieving largely in part due to coaching, over a bunch of bottom feeder teams with substantially more talent.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Flames were expected to be bottom 2, not 5. Secondly, the mood on the team is upbeat, which is hard when you're learning, yet the competitive spirit is still there. I don't think he's Jack Adams worthy strictly due to standings, but I can poke holes in most of your top 20 compared to Hartley. Like how does Bylsma get a pass for what he's done with the roster he's been given?

I had them at 28th to start the season ahead of Buffalo and Flordia. Others had them lower/higher. I think the bottom 5 right now seem to be grouped in a fairly similar spot so it isn't like he has them much higher (if at all) from what most thought. The team is right in the mix of worst teams so not really below or above where people thought they would be.

As for Byslma his team is the top team in the East what more does he need to do for his team? And that is with Malkin missing 10 games and Letang being out for awhile.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Did you predict it?

No, but given the tank job they did it's not such a big improvement as is being suggested.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

We were projected to be dead last at the beginning of the season owing to a barren lack of talent - easily the worst team on paper - and a lot of youngsters and rookies as well. Hartley and the Flames are sitting in 5th last place now because they are overachieving largely in part due to coaching, over a bunch of bottom feeder teams with substantially more talent.

Very important point.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Locke

Very important point.

Buffalo does not have more talent and certainly not substantially more talent, Florida has less talent but now perhaps more with Loungo coming in.

NYI have less talent with Tavares out of the line-up and Nashville with no Rinne is likely on par with us.

[timbit]

NO team consistently works or competes harder than Hartley's team this season.

That positive change in culture is directly attributable to he and his staff.

Their continued nurturing and development of the young players has also been top notch.

As far as talent( assuming goaltending is part of the equation) and injuries go ,all which are out of his hands....nobody has had a worse hand dealt to them and achieved more.

[moon]

Originally Posted by timbit

NO team consistently works or competes harder than Hartley's team this season.

That positive change in culture is directly attributable to he and his staff.

Their continued nurturing and development of the young players has also been top notch.

As far as talent( assuming goaltending is part of the equation) and injuries go ,all which are out of his hands....nobody has had a worse hand dealt to them and achieved more.

What a load of garbage.

The effort last night was pretty weak, the 2nd period was awful against the Islanders. This team has no-showed in plenty of games just like 90% of NHl teams do. Plus there are still plenty of floaters and guys going through the motions out there.

They are probably in the top half but no way "no team consistently works harder" there are plenty of teams that work that hard.

As for the hand he is dealt Nashville started with zero offensive talent and a goalie to keep them in games. They lost that goalie and still have done more than Hartley.

Hartley hasn't done much so this "nobody has done more with less" can only be based on very few teams having less because Hartley and the Flames have done zero so far this year.