Quebec is headed for independence, Michael Ignatieff tells the BBC

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't think they're comparable situations Slava.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't think they're comparable situations Slava.

OK, I'm listening?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Slava

OK, I'm listening?

Some differences are that in Czechoslovakia, each side had their own parties with very little overlap. The dissolution was an act of parliament based on the inability to govern the country as a whole. It was generally accepted by both sides that the federal system was not working.

I don't think majority of people on either side wanted separation. IIRC, polls were only at about 30% in favour on both sides, so there was less resentment among the populations (more so against the politicians) and a willingness to make it ork out best for everyone.

I don't think Canada is exactly like that, but there are probably similarities too. For example, I think for the most part, cooler heads would prevail and there would be an effort to make it work with as little disruption as possible.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Quebec has always understood that their true power is the leverage that comes with the threat of separation. Most (I believe - and hope) understand that actually playing the card not only eliminates it, but comes with astronomical costs.

I fully expect that this song and dance - the threat of separation - will continue throughout my lifetime but will never be enacted.

One can always hope that they actually follow through so this country can finally move on without the constant side show. The only real concern is how it would affect the Maritime provinces but otherwise I always hold out hope that one day Quebec will be dumb enough to actually go through with it.

[jofillips]

Slightly off topic but still relevant to Quebec - CBC was reporting this week that the PQ is changing the main historical education in the province to give a more Quebecois take on history.
This frankly scares the crap out of me.....there's a lot of nasty history in Quebec in the 20th Century alone. Utilising history like this (for political gain, borderline social engineering) instead of taking an analytical/critical approach feels like a big step back.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I fully expect that this song and dance - the threat of separation - will continue throughout my lifetime but will never be enacted.

The Neverendum Referendum.

[schteve_d]

Just for fun, if Quebec did separate would Canada stay a bilingual country? Would every business in this country still have to print EVERYTHING in both languages? Would we have to listen to the french version of the safety talk before take-off? I wonder.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Let's see how Scotland turns out...

And re: Quebec...the biggest issue is that first nations would not want to go with Quebec...so that would be a problem

[Senator Clay Davis]

^^Lots of people in New Brunswick also speak french (and I think it's the only official bilingual province) so I'm not too sure.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

^^Lots of people in New Brunswick also speak french (and I think it's the only official bilingual province) so I'm not too sure.

The population of New Brunswick is only about 750k. Of that, roughly 1/3 (or 250k people) are native French speakers. It's highly unlikely that the federal government would remain bilingual in a hypothetical Canada that didn't include Quebec, although I could certainly see NB maintaining its status as a bilingual province.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Some differences are that in Czechoslovakia, each side had their own parties with very little overlap. The dissolution was an act of parliament based on the inability to govern the country as a whole. It was generally accepted by both sides that the federal system was not working.

I don't think majority of people on either side wanted separation. IIRC, polls were only at about 30% in favour on both sides, so there was less resentment among the populations (more so against the politicians) and a willingness to make it ork out best for everyone.

I don't think Canada is exactly like that, but there are probably similarities too. For example, I think for the most part, cooler heads would prevail and there would be an effort to make it work with as little disruption as possible.

thanks for stepping in for me.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

^^Lots of people in New Brunswick also speak french (and I think it's the only official bilingual province) so I'm not too sure.

Originally Posted by MarchHare

The population of New Brunswick is only about 750k. Of that, roughly 1/3 (or 250k people) are native French speakers. It's highly unlikely that the federal government would remain bilingual in a hypothetical Canada that didn't include Quebec, although I could certainly see NB maintaining its status as a bilingual province.

I seem to recall from living in NB when I was young, that Quebec looks down on the french spoken in NB, much like the French look down on the french spoken in Quebec.

NB french is a #######ization of a #######ization of french.

Also, I seem to recall a francophone population in/around Manitoba. Could be wrong thou...

[CaptainCrunch]

BTW I did a little research on some terms and conditions of separation

Federal Government Property would go to Quebec at no cost, you can't charge them for a road or a building or a park for example.

However any movable Canadian Asset could be removed before final date of separation. So while a military base would become a Quebec Military Base, all assets inside, furniture, equipment, tanks etc could either be removed by the Government of Canada or a price could be negotiated with a sovereign Quebec.

In terms of one of the separatist assertions that they would continue to use Canadian Currency, Canada could impose a restriction on the export of Canadian Currency, Existing currency could be recalled and new notes distributed then. They could deny Quebec Institutions access to the Canadian Payments Association.

as far as the feat that the Quebec Government could negotiate in bad faith. IE agree to a equitable share of the national debt only to come back and say screw you we ain't paying. Canada holds a major hammer in that they are members of major trade groups like the NAFTA agreement, and the G Groups etc that require anonymous agreement to allow new members. Quebec could effectively be locked out of favorable trade as an Independent Quebec does not inherit membership after desperation.

[worth]

There's quite a large French speaking community in Alberta as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Albertan

[Coach]

Does anyone have any speculation on the amount of people that would be likely to leave Quebec for Canada in the case of separation? I imagine the number would be quite high for people that are against/indifferent on separation leaving to have the benefits of Canada that have been removed from sovereign Quebec. That would have a huge impact on Quebec after separation as well.

[OffsideSpecialist]

I know a bunch of guys from Edmonton. All of them are francophones.

Also, many parts of Northern and Eastern Ontario are majority francophone and the capital of the country is officially bilingual. Not sure if that would have an impact on whether or not the federal government were to remain bilingual. I think it is a moot point as I seriously doubt Quebec will separate any time soon.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by OffsideSpecialist

I know a bunch of guys from Edmonton. All of them are francophones.

Also, many parts of Northern and Eastern Ontario are majority francophone and the capital of the country is officially bilingual. Not sure if that would have an impact on whether or not the federal government were to remain bilingual. I think it is a moot point as I seriously doubt Quebec will separate any time soon.

I think about 5% of the population of Ontario declares French as their first language, which is pretty significant (Bob Hartley being one of them!)

[flamesfever]

In discussing the matter with friends, in general the younger generation in Quebec do not want to separate. It's mainly the older folks that are sticking to their outdated idea that Quebec will be better off alone.

I believe this is primarily due to the bill of goods sold to them by past politicians. Also IMO the tendency of many in Quebec to be easily led is due to a carryover from their long history of being subjugated by the Catholic Church. This was evident in the Duplesis and subsequent years, when the "politician replaced the priest".

[schteve_d]

There are a lot of obvious problems with Quebec's (lack of a) plan to separate. Currency, Passports, Mail Delivery, Defence, etc. are all the obvious things but I have been trying to think of all the not-so obvious things.

I have no proof, but I would think that a huge number of people would leave Quebec should a vote pass for them to separate, a lot more than would move into Quebec in preparation for independence. Imagine what that would do to the housing market!

[Daradon]

Interesting development in the election, some are saying this will really help the PQ's brand, and other are saying it may damage it, and muddy the message and take power away from Marois.

'Media mogul Pierre Karl Péladeau will run as the Parti Québécois candidate in the riding of Saint-Jérôme.

PQ leader Pauline Marois confirmed Péladeau’s candidacy at a news conference Sunday morning.

The move reverses Péladeau’s earlier assertions that he would not run for public office.

Péladeau is one of Quebec’s most prominent business leaders, having occupied positions including President and CEO of Vidéotron and CEO of Quebecor, the company founded by his father, Pierre Péladeau.'

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...B4me-1.2565855