[News] Cammalleri has NOT been traded. Upd: Cammalleri likely heading to free agency

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

My read on that is that was actually perhaps separate from whatever they were trying to do with Cammy.

Doug Maclean (I know) made some confusing point that things got messed up somehow with Gaborik going to LA and somehow Ottawa was involved for Cammy - but that deal screwed it up.

Yes, it sounds like it was a separate deal.

Was responding to New Era saying 'why didn't Burke do that?'

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Cammalleri clearly wasn't worth anywhere near as much as Moulson or Vanek. His production is worse, he's smaller, softer and having a bad year.

I doubt Burke got offered anything better than a 3rd and wouldn't surprise me if he was getting offered less.

I'm fine with the decision to not deal him for significantly less than you were asking. Some of the people in this thread don't seem to understand negotiating dynamics. Burke sets a value for Cammy, it has to drop because the price on Vanek/Moulson drops so it does. Now if you are getting offered half the new reduced price how weak does it make our organization look if we just accept whatever crappy mid round pick was offered? Very weak. Burke is right, our organization will be setting prices on players in the future and the resolve we show in sticking to our prices will help receive those prices in future negotiations with these same GMs

[sun]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Honestly, I think the biggest issue here is that people like trades and wanted trades and when they didn't get the big one, they are butt-hurt. Regardless of what the return may have been.

I resemble that remark.

[sureLoss]

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/cgy140306.html

However, TFP has learned that Cammalleri was indeed welcoming a change of scenery and is now expected to test the waters as an unrestricted free agent July 1.

The Columbus Blue Jackets, Boston Bruins, New Jersey Devils, Anaheim Ducks and Pittsburgh Penguins, among others, expressed an interest in Cammalleri, but the offers did not exceed a third-round draft pick.

[nemanja2306]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/cgy140306.html

Good move by Burke. Considering Cammy > Stempniak, trading him for the same return would have been losing in value.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/cgy140306.html

Ow.

Trading for that looks like desperation. Smart move by Burke going into the future IMO.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

Good move by Burke. Considering Cammy > Stempniak, trading him for the same return would have been losing in value.

Or getting a 3rd round pick and saving 2 million dollars for a guy who is walking after 19 games.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by neo45

Or getting a 3rd round pick and saving 2 million dollars for a guy who is walking after 19 games.

I think he might have traded him for a third but who knows, maybe they would have had to retain salary to even do that. It appears though they also ran out of time, all those dominoes didn't start dropping till late, and some didn't drop at all (Kesler). Obviously I'd rather have a 3rd round pick then 19 more games of Mike Cammalleri but this isn't a big deal at the end of the day.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

I think he might have traded him for a third but who knows, maybe they would have had to retain salary to even do that. It appears though they also ran out of time, all those dominoes didn't start dropping till late, and some didn't drop at all (Kesler). Obviously I'd rather have a 3rd round pick then 19 more games of Mike Cammalleri but this isn't a big deal at the end of the day.

Listening to a Garth Snow interview he made it sound like the Vanek, Moulson, Cammy trades were all held up severely by the Kesler negotiations.

He didn't mention the player's name but said that the player ended up not moving and that it wasn't Cammy. So perhaps Burke simply did run out of time

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by neo45

Listening to a Garth Snow interview he made it sound like the Vanek, Moulson, Cammy trades were all held up severely by the Kesler negotiations.

He didn't mention the player's name but said that the player ended up not moving and that it wasn't Cammy. So perhaps Burke simply did run out of time

Not only did Vancouver screw up their Trade Deadline they messed with everyone else's too!

I ####ING HATE VANCOUVER!!!!!

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

You don't think teams would bring lesser offers to the Flames if Feaster is running the show versus Burke?

There's no reason to believe that.

If trades are all about macho posturing, why doesn't every GM low-ball his counterpart in every negotiation? Two reasons:

• When you low-ball, you get a reputation as someone who wastes other GM's time.
  
• If you put in a low bid for a player, the GM who places a higher bid will end up with the player. You're not just dealing with one other party in a trade, with all the other parties interested in the asset. How do you know they will all low-ball Jay Feaster?

I believe management teams collectively put a value on players (their own and the ones they're interested in), and no amount of bluster, persuasion, or jedi mind tricks changes that valuation. There's far less drama and psychology in these deals than fans want to believe.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Since1984

Not only did Vancouver screw up their Trade Deadline they messed with everyone else's too!

I ####ING HATE VANCOUVER!!!!!

Conspiracy theory time... Think they knew what they were doing? What better way to safeguard your own playoff chances by dangling the biggest potential prize of the deadline, logjamming deals for every other player because ZOMG KESLER and then walking away from the phone when other teams have a fraction of the time to deal with Vanek/Gaborik/Hemsky/Moulson etc.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I believe management teams collectively put a value on players (their own and the ones they're interested in), and no amount of bluster, persuasion, or jedi mind tricks changes that valuation. There's far less drama and psychology in these deals than fans want to believe.

Maybe but we're all just fans here, like yourself.

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Conspiracy theory time... Think they knew what they were doing? What better way to safeguard your own playoff chances by dangling the biggest potential prize of the deadline, logjamming deals for every other player because ZOMG KESLER and then walking away from the phone when other teams have a fraction of the time to deal with Vanek/Gaborik/Hemsky/Moulson etc.

This could have some truth to it....but I tend to think Gillis is an extremely incompetent GM and that would be far above his IQ level.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Matty81

I think everybody gets it, people just don't buy it. It's just a narrative he made up with no actual proof. Here are a couple more that have just as much proof:

- eating an asset for nothing will give the team a reputation of being hard to deal with and next year a few teams won't even bother calling/offering.

- the team will get a reputation of overvaluing players and get less calls/offers.

I just theorized and threw those out there, just like Burke did to cover his butt. They are just as likely. Hey the sky isn't falling or anything, it's a 3rd/4th rounf pick, just a lot of people see through the everything I do has a reason narrative. Some good deals but he dropped the ball here. Assets > Sticking to your guns

No. Just no. If you have something of value, you will always have people calling about it. The problem the Flames faced was a logjam of similar players, and while they adjusted their asking price, they weren't going to move Cammalleri just to do it.

Cammalleri isn't Moulson/Vanek. But he's better than Stempniak. He and Hemsky are pretty similar value, and if anyone offered a 3rd and 5th for him, I'm sure he'd be gone. I would've been okay trading him for a 3rd, but I'm a bad negotiator and I recognize that. Burke is a good negotiator. Part of that means you have to be willing to walk away from the deal.

Finally, you don't get to be where Brian Burke is if you don't have a very good reason for doing EVERYTHING. You can 'see through it' all you want, but really what you're telling us is that you aren't smart enough to see anything resembling a big picture.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Since1984

This could have some truth to it....but I tend to think Gillis is an extremely incompetent GM and that would be far above his IQ level.

He appears to be quite incompetent, but he also appears to be a huge a$$hole. And an a$$hole would do that.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Maybe but we're all just fans here, like yourself.

Well, that and Burke believed that reputation was important and said it in the post-deadline presser.... I dont' know if Burke is right or wrong, but he obviously has worked in the industry a long time and none of us CPe have any idea what goes on in trades.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Do you really think Burke was offered a return similar to what Vanek netted. Vanek is a better player.

People are drawing their conclusions based on making up what they think the return was. We don't know what the offers or how many there were.

I suspect the best Burke could get was a 3rd. Worth it to trade him for that? Maybe. Maybe not.

Based on Burke's comments, Cammy would have gone for a 3rd as Burke attaches value to 2nd and 3rd rounders. It could have been Pittsburgh saying we will give you a third for either Stemp or Cammy (50%retention) and given Burke's interest in re-signing Cammy and lack of interest in re-signing Stempniak he kept the asset he has interest in retaining and jettisoned the one he didn't want.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Since1984

Not only did Vancouver screw up their Trade Deadline they messed with everyone else's too!

I ####ING HATE VANCOUVER!!!!!

Thinking about it, I'd rather not have Cammy traded and have Vancouver lose having a step into furthering a rebuild.

Personally, I'd prefer them thinking they have a chance making the playoffs. And if they somehow do make it, they are out the first round guaranteed.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

There's no reason to believe that.

If trades are all about macho posturing, why doesn't every GM low-ball his counterpart in every negotiation? Two reasons:

• When you low-ball, you get a reputation as someone who wastes other GM's time.
• If you put in a low bid for a player, the GM who places a higher bid will end up with the player. You're not just dealing with one other party in a trade, with all the other parties interested in the asset. How do you know they will all low-ball Jay Feaster?

I believe management teams collectively put a value on players (their own and the ones they're interested in), and no amount of bluster, persuasion, or jedi mind tricks changes that valuation. There's far less drama and psychology in these deals than fans want to believe.

It's not drama, it's negotiations. And anyone that thinks there isn't an art to negotiations can't be doing much of them.