[News] Burke trade deadline presser 3:25pm MT

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Burke basically just said what Tinordi said in the other thread, building organizational reputation in trades is worth something in future trades, let's others know you simply bend over cause that's whats available.

Hey, I said it first... ; )

[strombad]

Originally Posted by saillias

That goes 2 ways though right. Teams will remember that Burke was a stubborn mule but by contrast Snow and Murray were adaptable and could be negotiated with. This was part of the problem with Darcy Regier in Buffalo. He only made trades if he fleeced the other team.

Not really to that extent. I don't see it as Burke having to fleece the other team. He said it himself, he moved the price for Cammy with the market. It's more about teams knowing for next year that the Flames aren't a team that you can just wait out and hope they cave. Be ready to negotiate, because the Flames aren't going to get desperate and give guys away for nothing just for the sake of making a trade.

By all accounts, Burke was just as adaptable as Snow and Murray, it was just the waiting game being played that ended up creating unfit conditions to deal Cammy.

Oh well.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by nik-

Is that what he said? I had to miss the last half.

Said it's up to the coaches but made it sound like that's the plan.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by saillias

That goes 2 ways though right. Teams will remember that Burke was a stubborn mule but by contrast Snow and Murray were adaptable and could be negotiated with. This was part of the problem with Darcy Regier in Buffalo. He only made trades if he fleeced the other team.

Duha mentioned this this morning, saying Burke has a reputation for not getting pushed around, but doesn't have to win every trade. He is happy to make a fair trade, that helps both sides, but he won't get bullied into a weak trade.

[nik-]

Don't know how I feel about it. 50% happy Ortio gets a well deserved shot and big paycheque. 50% nervous about him getting shelled and hurting his confidence.

I guess it's not like there's a choice in the matter until Ramo comes back.

[djsFlames]

I'd only be in favour of Butler getting extended if it's short term and he never gets anything beyond bottom pairing minutes again.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

You can't just bend over and trade Cammy for only a 2nd or 3rd rounder, you need to set the floor for future negotiations.

I call balderdash on that... Burke won't be the one doing the future negotiations and I doubt that he's going to magically confer anything onto whomever the new GM is just by proxy.

Burke's just making excuses for not getting it done.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by saillias

So then the problem was that he simply ran out of time. Oh boy, if that was Feaster he would be getting raked through the coals on this board and in the media. Just sayin

Holy crap. Where did you get that from?

[mrdonkey]

I would be worried about the extension talks with Butler, but having garbage players like him around will make us front runners for McDavid. Extend on!

[getbak]

Originally Posted by nik-

Don't know how I feel about it. 50% happy Ortio gets a well deserved shot and big paycheque. 50% nervous about him getting shelled and hurting his confidence.

Turku Goaliebot v2.0 does not have an emotion chip.

[SuperMatt18]

The one concern I have is that Burke let the other teams dictate the market for his players.

Instead of waiting for Cammy to be a consolation prize and hopefully start a bidding war he should have tried to play the inflated market by using the buffer space to sell his asset.

When Buffalo/NewYork were asking for the moon (1st, top prospect, roster player) he should have tried to force the issue with teams interested and take advantage of what the market was at the time.

He approaches a team yesterday and says we will do Cammy for a first straight up and maybe something might get done since they are scared by the high prices for Vanek/Moulson and don't want to be left out.

Columbus did that this morning by getting a second, third, and Frattin for Gaborik. Instead of waiting for the dominoes to fall they undercut the perceived market at the time and still got fair value back for Gaborik (almost just as good of value as Moulson/Vanek got)

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by nik-

Don't know how I feel about it. 50% happy Ortio gets a well deserved shot and big paycheque. 50% nervous about him getting shelled and hurting his confidence.

I guess you can always put that curmudgeon MacDonald in for extended periods and let him take the shelling and have Ortio head back to the Heat once Ramo is back.

Ortio (assuming he gets re-signed) and Ramo split next year with the Flames and Gillis/??? play for the Heat?

[neo45]

I think something fell through with Anaheim and he is trying to put a positive spin on it.

If 2nd and 3rd round picks are so awesome (like he said) then why not just trade Cammy for one? Or should we believe that Berra and Stempniak got us better offers?

My Anaheim theory kinda makes sense from their end too. They seemed very likely to pick up a forward today after trading Penner

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The one concern I have is that Burke let the other teams and market dictate what he did instead of trying to push the market.

Instead of waiting yesterday when the market was still strong for Cammy to be a the last chance and hopefully start a bidding war he should have tried to play the inflated market by using the space to sell his asset.

When Buffalo/NewYork were asking for the moon (1st, top prospect, roster player) he should have tried to force the issue with teams interested and take advantage of what the market was at the time.

He approaches a team yesterday and says we will do Cammy for a first straight up and something might get done.

Columbus did that this morning by getting a second, third, and Frattin for Gaborik. Instead of waiting for the dominoes to fall they undercut the perceived market at the time and still got fair value back for Gaborik.

I agree with this argument, unless of course he did try, and the teams he spoke to wanted to wait to see if they could get Vanek, Moulson or Gaborik first, and he was left as 4th fiddle...

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Not sure about that. You offer Pittsburgh Cammy instead of Stempniak for a 3rd and they take Cammy for sure.

It is mostly about perception.

Berra for a second rounder...great, Stempniak for a 3rd...seems fair.

Cammy for a 3rd when you were originally asking for a 1st + mid-prospect...makes you look weak and like you caved.

I am guessing that had Burke been offered a first he would have taken it instantly, an offer of a 2nd + a prospect probably gets it done, but settling for just a 2nd makes you look weak in future negotiations so he didn't make the deal.

Just my 2 cents.

I've seen you mention this a few times, you keep missing the fact that teams have to fit under a capm Cammalleri has a big cap hit, Stempniak doesn't, so the 2 are not a direct comparison.

The think the fact that Cammalleri's value was much less than Vanek (2nd rounder) is quite evident what was offered (4th, 5th round picks).

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Duha mentioned this this morning, saying Burke has a reputation for not getting pushed around, but doesn't have to win every trade. He is happy to make a fair trade, that helps both sides, but he won't get bullied into a weak trade.

Very fair.....

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I call balderdash on that... Burke won't be the one doing the future negotiations and I doubt that he's going to magically confer anything onto whomever the new GM is just by proxy.

Burke's just making excuses for not getting it done.

Are you crazy? Not about the excuses part, that's a fine opinion, I don't share it at this point, but it's a fair stance.

But do you really think anything Burke does now has no merit for future negotiations the Flames make because he won't be the GM? Sorry, he will be the president of Hockey Ops, said it before, it's a structural thing, but that means Burke is the main guy, top dog for hockey related matters on this team. Which means, nothing of any significance will happen on this club that Burke isn't on board with. If you are holding out hope that that won't be the case when an new GM is found, you are going to be very sad. All this "new" structure does is add another layer to hockey teams. Burke basically holds the title that the GM does on other teams, he just won't have to do the dirty work. The New GM will basically be the same as an Ass. GM on other teams with maybe a littel more leway, and the new Ass. GM will be like an old assitant GM with less responsibility.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I've seen you mention this a few times, you keep missing the fact that teams have to fit under a capm Cammalleri has a big cap hit, Stempniak doesn't, so the 2 are not a direct comparison.

The think the fact that Cammalleri's value was much less than Vanek (2nd rounder) is quite evident what was offered (4th, 5th round picks).


Very fair.....

Cammy had a lower contract than Gaborik is undoubtedly better right now, Gaborik was traded for a 2nd and some stuff

Also, with half retained salary (Burke said he offered it), his salary is more comparable to Stempniaks, so the comparison isn't that off

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I've seen you mention this a few times, you keep missing the fact that teams have to fit under a capm Cammalleri has a big cap hit, Stempniak doesn't, so the 2 are not a direct comparison.

The think the fact that Cammalleri's value was much less than Vanek (2nd rounder) is quite evident what was offered (4th, 5th round picks).


Very fair.....

Unless we are willing to eat 50% of Cammy's hit, which was rumored.

Difference between $3 million of Cammy vs $2.5 million of Stempniak is minor at the deadline.

[EVERLAST]

from all that has been reported Ortio has really progressed oconsiderably since 2 years ago.

Hearing this from Troy WArd....Malarchuk Conroy and even Kipper mKes me worry less about this being a bad decision going forward.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by saillias

That goes 2 ways though right. Teams will remember that Burke was a stubborn mule but by contrast Snow and Murray were adaptable and could be negotiated with. This was part of the problem with Darcy Regier in Buffalo. He only made trades if he fleeced the other team.

I would like to see the Flames fleece the other team rather than get fleeced - like the Regher or the Phaneuf trades.