Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
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Originally Posted by cancer man
Atheists are the most ignorant people. They still pray in a foxhole, before exams and the best is... they hope what they got for christmas is in that box.Hope is Religion.
I preach Humanity.Everybody prays.
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Interesting comment from a doctor about missionaries, and then the girls sister responds to it.
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A friend who is a doctor in the US 1/2 the time to earn enough money so he can go volunteer in Fiji the other 1/2 of the year, was having a great conversation on his FB page about missionaries. Many of you are involved in churches with an very active missionary program. Just wanted to post his comments on the view from the folks that are being served, and get some comments.
"Universally... key parts of being a decent human being... by most measures... revolves around fairness, being courteous, and nonviolence. When a foreigner enters a country... he should enter as a humble witness... as he is unaware of the customs and traditions that have often blossomed through 1000s of years of delicate evolution. Superimposing a religion, church/temple/mosque, value system, etc. on a an economically starved community we don't know enough about is...in a sense... a callous act of violence. One's culture/religion of origin is as deeply rooted in a person as one's connection to his or her Mother.
Who am I to say my Mother is better than your Mother? Who am I to say your Mother is bad? Who am I to even attempt to demonstrate (in even the most subtle form) my Mother is more loving than your Mother when I have the bounty of resources at my disposal to enchant? I have seen it too many times. I have seen generations of beautiful ancestral cultures/indigenous practices lost to well-funded "do-gooders" looking for post-card moments to take back and flaunt to their religious communities. I agree... one should serve but don't build churches or temples... build clinics, schools, etc. Let your faith motivate you but don't preach your religion. Instead... take part in the (few) profound native practices (that are still left standing) that are often as deeply embedded as the soil itself.
All in all... it's critical not to lose sight of basic common sense morality when one becomes a devout practitioner of a faith. To put it even more simply... one should never blatantly (or even subtly) impose (or even suggest) the idea that vanilla tastes bad when one has only known chocolate. That of course would be unfair. uncourteous and... when generations of precious ancestral heritage/practices are at stake... violent."
The reply in defense (sort of..) of missionary work.
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The first thing that comes to mind is that Jesus was about RELATIONSHIP not RELIGION . . . however, that doesn't mean He wasn't bold about sharing the thoughts of His Father, often times to the frustration of the Pharisees (religious people) in His day. He didn't bow to world views and adjust what His Father wants and commands from us. He shared His Father's views with Love.
I think there is a difference between only having tasted chocolate and not having tried vanilla verses a lifestyle that leads to destruction (i.e. idol worshiping, believing in gods). There is a story in the Bible talking about how the religious people brought an adulterous woman to Christ and wanted her stoned (note they didn't bring the adulterous man with her).
Christ told them whoever was without sin could through the first stone. Of course He was the only one qualified to do it. All the religious people ended up leaving the area as He exposed their sins to them. What happened next?? He let the woman know what she had done wasn't okay but He didn't condemn her and to go and sin no more! So, he built that relationship with her but was bold in letting her know what she did wasn't okay and to stop it And He did it all in love
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love this interaction between you two. It shows me how strong you are in your faith. I'm not sure what this doctor's actual perspective was, but since I have missionaries in my family who have served in various ways in foreign countries (teaching, building, helping others) it seems to me that ANYTIME you go to a foreign country to "do" things, whether it is share the gospel or build a hospital, school etc., you are changing that person's life.
The thing about ministering to others through actions that help the people continue to thrive, while sharing the Word of God that will help them to LIVE FOREVER is that you are not just looking after the people's physical needs but their spiritual needs. While we would wish it so, many people will never understand how it changes a person when they accept Christ unless they have been there and been used as that tool!
__________________ Allskonar fyrir Aumingja!!
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I asked her about what she thought happens to those who never ever hear of her God, Bible are they then condemned to eternal hell.. This was her reply:
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Not necessarily Thor Vida Jonsson. I have listened to many reknowned Bible teaching people say that people can actually find eternal life through what they experience of the God of Creation. However, I do believe that having that relationship with God must be a personal decision and not just an "I believe there is a GOD." The Bible teaches that "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
I believe that God loves ALL people and doesn't wish for ONE to perish. I also know that there are things I will never understand about our world and the people in it and have to trust that somehow, some way, God provides for those. But I also think that is why God gave the Great Commission to "go and tell the nations."
I have talked to many missionaries like Steve Saint, son of Nate and Marj Saint who ministered with Missionary Aviation Fellowship in Ecuador who believe that is OUR commission--doesn't matter the place. We must share our faith and the gospel with others.
Thor: may I request a source on that please? i'd like to read the whole exchange.
Reason: my significant other's entire family are xtian fundie with several missionaries on the roster. This exact conversation has come up and seemingly ended the same way: running into the evidence that trumps all evidence: the bible. Very frustrating. It's not like I can point out that the bible is evidence of god like twilight saga is evidence of vampires.
Here's the rest of it, its a friend on Facebook and her very religious friends, she describes herself as spiritual but not religious, her friends however VERY religious.
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I have not been on a missions trip outside the United States. The Domestic Missions work I have done has been AMAZING and I would love to go and experience life through missions outside the US. Thor I LOVE your question. Questions like this are so hard though because we are not God and our thoughts aren't like His. Humans are amazing for sure but we are limited in our humanness compared to God. The fact he created different snow flakes, atoms, DNA, the line where the color of your lip changes to be skin color instead of lip color all just leaves me in awe. In fact I know more often than not I just take for granted all the amazing things He does.
Anyway, in my crazy mind I see your question as this . . . . how can someone know what they don't know if someone else hasn't told them what they should know? The link below talks about several aspects of this. What I want to point out is Psalm 19:1 "The heavens proclaim the glory of God. The skies display His craftsmanship." New Living Translation God's very creation tells people He exists and where better than a remote place like an island or the untamed wilderness to actually be able to see His handy work.
The other verse is Luke 19:38-40 (Jesus is coming into Jerusalem the week before His death) "Blessings on the King who comes in the name of the Lord! Peace in heaven, and glory in highest heaven!" But some of the Pharisees among the crowd said, "Teacher, rebuke your followers for saying things like that!" He replied, "If they kept quiet, the stones along the road would burst into cheers!" The Pharisees felt the followers were blaspheming the name of God by comparing Jesus to Him. And Christ response was if the people don't say it then the stones will.
I asked my minister in Miles City, MT this question once and he said he has been told by missionary friends there was a time they got to a place no one had been to and when they began to share Christ with the native people the Tribal Leader had previously had a vision sharing that exact story of Christ. I believe God can, and will, make Himself known all over the world and He will use us to help with that if needed. If for some reason someone doesn't hear about Him then it is His responsibility to decide if they go to heaven or hell.
Absolutely Tia Carr. One of my favorite verses of the Bible is in Isaiah 55:12 For you shall go out with joy, and be led out with peace; the mountains and the hills shall break forth into singing before you, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. Can you just imagine the trees clapping their hands and the hills singing the glory of God! One of my favorite sayings is that "God doesn't NEED us to do HIS work." But He still called us to do it--to share the plan of salvation!
__________________ Allskonar fyrir Aumingja!!
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...The reply in defense (sort of..) of missionary work.
Parts of this really frustrate me:
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The first thing that comes to mind is that Jesus was about RELATIONSHIP not RELIGION . . .
This is a total misunderstanding of what we know about Jesus, and who we think he was based on the available evidence. It is a common sentiment that is the product of a common problem: That the vast majority of people—Christian and otherwise—tend to read the Bible from their own deeply engrained Western perspective, and presume upon the text ideas that are basically foreign to it.
Jesus was a Jewish itinerant preacher, or a self-styled rabbi. He was RELIGIOUS in virtually every sense of the term as it was applied in the first century. Any indication of a dichotomy drawn between "religion" and "relationship" in Jesus' teachings is completely imagined, and most of his own philosophy was comfortably accommodated within Jewish religious practice and thought.
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...however, that doesn't mean He wasn't bold about sharing the thoughts of His Father, often times to the frustration of the Pharisees (religious people) in His day.
NO. The Pharisees were no more "religious" than anyone else in first century Palestine, insofar as what was understood to have been meant by "religious". I will grant that Jesus held to a different ethic that was more closely related to religious practice, but this is a different matter. The way that she makes this assertion makes no sense within its natural context.
The Pharisees were actually a populists movement, and they were enormously popular in the first century CE precisely because they catered to the lower and middle classes in their expression of Judaism. The most powerful religious faction were the "Sadducees" or perhaps "Zadokites". This was the ruling aristocracy who formed the priesthood, controlled the Temple, and were responsible for the correct interpretation and application of the Mosaic Law—the Torah. Jesus' confrontations with the Pharisees were more a product of his own social situation, since they were on his level from a socioeconomic perspective.
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He didn't bow to world views and adjust what His Father wants and commands from us. He shared His Father's views with Love.
Again this whole statement is preposterous. Jesus was no different from most Jews in his demographic. There was an ongoing controversy concerning Hellenisation at the time, but Jesus likely NEVER encountered these sorts of debates because of his social standing.
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Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Here's the rest of it, its a friend on Facebook and her very religious friends, she describes herself as spiritual but not religious, her friends however VERY religious.
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. . . how can someone know what they don't know if someone else hasn't told them what they should know? The link below talks about several aspects of this. What I want to point out is Psalm 19:1 "The heavens proclaim the glory of God. The skies display His craftsmanship." New Living Translation God's very creation tells people He exists and where better than a remote place like an island or the untamed wilderness to actually be able to see His handy work.
Preposterous. Again, this is reading and misunderstanding the passage in question from an inappropriately applied and irrelevant cultural context. The text in question is not didactic, it is liturgical. Its intention is not to instruct about how to answer questions concerning god's existence—since virtually every person in the Ancient Near East WAS a theist of some stripe. The passage is a reflection on god's creative activity—it is a meditation on Genesis 1.
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The other verse is Luke 19:38-40 (Jesus is coming into Jerusalem the week before His death) "Blessings on the King who comes in the name of the Lord! Peace in heaven, and glory in highest heaven!" But some of the Pharisees among the crowd said, "Teacher, rebuke your followers for saying things like that!" He replied, "If they kept quiet, the stones along the road would burst into cheers!" The Pharisees felt the followers were blaspheming the name of God by comparing Jesus to Him. And Christ response was if the people don't say it then the stones will.
Except that Jesus was NOT comparing himself to god. The shouts of the people were a quotation of Ps 118.26, which was a messianic proclamation. A large number of Jews were eagerly anticipating political, cultural, and religious emancipation after hundreds of years of foreign occupation. Their proclamation was an indication that they expected Jesus to save them from the Romans, and to usher in a new age of Jewish political dominance and prosperity, which likely also coincided with the obliteration of Judea's enemies. THIS is what made the Pharisees nervous: They clearly saw the political implications, and worried that the crowd's behaviour would incite the wrath of the onlooking Roman legions. Jesus' response was sheer defiance, NOTHING MORE. It is not as though anyone actually thought the rocks would actually take up the cry of the crowds. This was hyperbole! The message being that Jesus could not, and WOULD not be stopped—Romans be damned.
Absolutely Tia Carr. One of my favorite verses of the Bible is in Isaiah 55:12 For you shall go out with joy, and be led out with peace; the mountains and the hills shall break forth into singing before you, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. Can you just imagine the trees clapping their hands and the hills singing the glory of God! One of my favorite sayings is that "God doesn't NEED us to do HIS work." But He still called us to do it--to share the plan of salvation!
What an odd connexion to make between this text and the ideas espoused. Maybe the most frustrating component of fundamentalist and evangelical hermeneutical method is that they have no sense of hyperbole or exaggeration. As if virtually everything contained in the Bible is a plain description of the way things are, or of what is expected to take place. Again, this is poetic, liturgical language that is dripping in metaphor. Mountains and hills do not sing, and are unable to do so. Trees have no hands, and they are unable to clap. NOBODY who heard this hymn performed in its original setting ever made the mistake of thinking that these were descriptions of things that were actually to take place. Why are evangelicals so ridiculous?
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Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
During an interview on Monday with anti-LGBT Indiana pastor Jeff Allen, TruNews host Rick Wiles said that LGBT activists are literal Nazis and their true objective was not world domination by the Aryan race, but a global homosexual society.
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“It’s not an exaggeration to say ‘homofascist,’” Wiles insisted, “because the German Nazi Party was homosexual. Hitler was a homosexual. The top Nazi leadership, all of them were homosexuals. They were creating a homosexual special race,” he said. "That’s what it was all about. It wasn’t this thing about an Aryan race of white people, blue-eyed, blonde-haired, white people, Hitler was trying to create a race of super gay male soldiers."
That is hilarious. How does he figure the human race will propagate, once this special race of homosexuals have world dominance. maybe breeding slaves.
Esk, who is running for a seat in the state’s House, reportedly discussed the stoning and killing of homosexuals in July 2013 Facebook conversations, which were discovered and posted by Oklahoma-based website The Moore Daily Tuesday.
EDMONTON – An Edmonton teenager and her mother have successfully filed a complaint with the Alberta Human Rights Commission, alleging the Edmonton Public School District’s use of a Christian fundamentalist abstinence education program infringed upon their rights as non-Christians.
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And He did it all in love
