[News Roundup] Burke does his homework. Has a hockey trade in the works?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

When Iggy submitted his list, Feaster was suppose to get him to sign off on the list and submit it to league. Basically making his NMC become a NTC to 4 teams. If the list is submitted then they could have just traded him to Boston without asking him. While i hated Feaster, i am not sure you can blame him for this? I think Edwards was the lead guy on the Iggy trade.

That is the typical process, but there was plenty of room for grey. Iggy earned the right to pick his spot; if only Bos or only Chi presented a trade option, then he would have gone there happily. In the case there was more than one to choose from, he could have the final choice. This was probably a condition of him waiving his NMC at all...otherwise he would have been within his rights to ride out the season and make his choice in the summer.

[troutman]

No "hockey trades" please. Just acquire more picks.

[Enoch Root]

I would love to see a hockey trade or two (just for the sheer sport of it)

[Flash Walken]

I think the deadline is one of the best times to do a 'hockey trade', as rosters are already in flux and maneuvering cap is more manageable as teams fit and remove different pieces.

If Boston or Anaheim calls about Glencross, serve him up.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by troutman

No "hockey trades" please. Just acquire more picks.

so you want them to go full Oilers?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

so you want them to go full Oilers?

It's sad how the Oilers have managed to poison the very notion of a rebuild.

Rebuilds can be done well or done poorly. The Oilers have done theirs poorly - not because they relied on drafting a new core, but because they've done it badly, and their management is also terrible at most other aspects of running a team.

And there are other cautionary examples of management approaches in the NHL; namely the Leafs, who have turned mediocrity and wishful thinking into a kind of art form. At least the Oilers have made it to the finals in the last 20 years. Despite enormous resources and clout, the Leafs have accomplished even less than the Oilers in that time frame.

[Tinordi]

I love the unchallenged narratives that just develop and are then taken as "the truth" on this board.

Edmonton is bad because they don't have veterans. Therefore you don't want to sell all of your assets for picks because then you'll be as bad as Edmonton.

There's really nothing out there that indicates that this is actually the problem. There are many many reasons for why Edmonton is in the position they're in most specifically that they haven't drafted and developed any players worth their salt in the goalie and defense positions and no character and depth players. That's their problem. Has basically nothing to do with having veterans on the team.

[Dajazz]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I love the unchallenged narratives that just develop and are then taken as "the truth" on this board.

Edmonton is bad because they don't have veterans. Therefore you don't want to sell all of your assets for picks because then you'll be as bad as Edmonton.

There's really nothing out there that indicates that this is actually the problem. There are many many reasons for why Edmonton is in the position they're in most specifically that they haven't drafted and developed any players worth their salt in the goalie and defense positions and no character and depth players. That's their problem. Has basically nothing to do with having veterans on the team.

There's actually only one reason and its Lowe, but the results are goaltending, defense, character etc just like you said

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Dajazz

There's actually only one reason and its Lowe, but the results are goaltending, defense, character etc just like you said

the biggest problem if you ask me is that all their kids were just handed roster spots and didn't have to work for anything and that same thing shows on the ice. I chalk alot of Sven's problems up to the same this year, he was handed it and his work ethic suffered.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

the biggest problem if you ask me is that all their kids were just handed roster spots and didn't have to work for anything and that same thing shows on the ice. I chalk alot of Sven's problems up to the same this year, he was handed it and his work ethic suffered.

Totally agree with this. They gave those young players the keys to the castle without them really having to turn into complete players.

I have a theory on why they did it. They were scared that they would bolt. I actually feel a bit sorry for Edmonton in a way. They're once bitten twice shy after the Pronger fiasco which I think really impacted the psychology of Lowe and that franchise. Let there be no doubt that infact yes, having to trade Pronger was a major, franchise crippling blow that they're still recovering from. I think that in the aftermath of that Lowe got badly spooked and made sure that it wouldn't happen again.

He may actually have been right, in the decade that he was trying to lure free agents to play in Edmonton he basically got nowhere and may have thought to himself that these young players will do the same. So to compensate he brought them into the family early and richly. Unfortunately for him, I do think it stunted their development. They didn't have to earn the big pay, they didn't have to go through a bridge contract or prove their worth to the franchise. Can get to a young player.

[Azhouse]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I actually feel a bit sorry for Edmonton in a way.

You're fired.

[djsFlames]

I wouldn't mind seeing Burke bring back a big (ish) name roster player back for us that could maybe provide our top 6 with some size. As long as this player is in the 20-27 age range, it could help us for more than the short term. A young player may have to go, but it all depends on who it is. Reinhart, Granlund (as much as I am a fan), Knight, Arnold, Agostino, and depending on the player coming back, Sven, could be tradable pieces.

[Tinordi]

I'm too busy to really look into things but did Pittsburg or Chicago or any other successful rebuilding squad in the last decade have a good stock of veterans by which the youngsters developed in?

If I recall, Pittsburg didn't have great veterans when they inserted all of their youth, Chicago didn't either besides Campbell who's a flake. Sure there were probably a couple of guys but they bought them off the free agent wire and that was that. It wasn't like there was already a strong nurturing character driven "room" that the young players were allowed to emerge in. It was more like those teams drafted alot of really good players over the period of 3-5 years and put all of those really good young players together and then they emerged.

If I'm to sacrifice bullets in the chamber like draft picks to get really good players for the "benefit" of having some solid vets like Chris Clark or Lee Stempniak or whomever then I don't know how i feel about that. It's a case by case basis, but I would have no problem going for a couple full scorched earth 10 pick drafts if that's the plan.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by fotze

Ya, we all agree that the Oilers are bad for many many reasons but when it comes to acquiring picks, some just narrow it down to a no veteran thing.

How about we do more than 1 year of getting a lot of draft picks. We don't need to go to 7 years, but how about we start with 2? Is that so much to ask?

If Calgary drafts a player higher than 15 that turns into a regular roster player, they will already be ahead of where Edmonton.

If you look at Edmonton's draft history it makes the islanders look pretty. Not a single pick worth anything after 15th in the first round.

At this rate, all calgary has to do is keep drafting Ryan Wilson with 5 rounders and they will be ahead of the Oilers.

THAT is the biggest issue with the Oilers and their rebuild, more than paying their players top money or giving them unearned ice time, etc.

If the only draft picks you make that are decent roster players are coming in the top 5, you're going to be a terrible organization. You have to go back to 2003 to find a decent roster player picked after the #15 overall. There's piddlings here and there, but they are piddlings like Jeff Petry and Theo Peckham, borderline NHL'ers in my opinion.

You look at Chicago, Boston, St. Louis, San Jose, Anaheim, and they all have drafted players with picks that aren't in the top 10 overall. That's the difference between the organizations.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If Calgary drafts a player higher than 15 that turns into a regular roster player, they will already be ahead of where Edmonton.

If you look at Edmonton's draft history it makes the islanders look pretty. Not a single pick worth anything after 15th in the first round.

At this rate, all calgary has to do is keep drafting Ryan Wilson with 5 rounders and they will be ahead of the Oilers.

THAT is the biggest issue with the Oilers and their rebuild, more than paying their players top money or giving them unearned ice time, etc.

If the only draft picks you make that are decent roster players are coming in the top 5, you're going to be a terrible organization. You have to go back to 2003 to find a decent roster player picked after the #15 overall. There's piddlings here and there, but they are piddlings like Jeff Petry and Theo Peckham, borderline NHL'ers in my opinion.

You look at Chicago, Boston, St. Louis, San Jose, Anaheim, and they all have drafted players with picks that aren't in the top 10 overall. That's the difference between the organizations.

Eberle was drafted 22nd overall. But I do get what you're saying, Oilers suck at drafting.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I'm too busy to really look into things but did Pittsburg or Chicago or any other successful rebuilding squad in the last decade have a good stock of veterans by which the youngsters developed in?

If I recall, Pittsburg didn't have great veterans when they inserted all of their youth, Chicago didn't either besides Campbell who's a flake. Sure there were probably a couple of guys but they bought them off the free agent wire and that was that. It wasn't like there was already a strong nurturing character driven "room" that the young players were allowed to emerge in. It was more like those teams drafted alot of really good players over the period of 3-5 years and put all of those really good young players together and then they emerged.

If I'm to sacrifice bullets in the chamber like draft picks to get really good players for the "benefit" of having some solid vets like Chris Clark or Lee Stempniak or whomever then I don't know how i feel about that. It's a case by case basis, but I would have no problem going for a couple full scorched earth 10 pick drafts if that's the plan.

No, but Detroit and Boston did. If you can get the quality and caliber of players that Chicago and Pittsburg did, then you can run with the youngsters themselves, and let things develop on their own. Remember though, that Chicago and Pittsburg, with the lockout season, were able to get a large, critical mass if you will, number of very high quality players entering the league at the same time to create a unique team environment. This doesn't happen all the time, and is difficult to accomplish. If you do not have a large group to throw out in multiple positions all at once, then you need to develop the players you do have cautiously and effectively. This is where Boston, and Detroit have had some real success, maximizing the players they do have, to their ultimate success.

[Enoch Root]

Chicago had tons of vets

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I'm too busy to really look into things but did Pittsburg or Chicago or any other successful rebuilding squad in the last decade have a good stock of veterans by which the youngsters developed in?

If I recall, Pittsburg didn't have great veterans when they inserted all of their youth, Chicago didn't either besides Campbell who's a flake. Sure there were probably a couple of guys but they bought them off the free agent wire and that was that. It wasn't like there was already a strong nurturing character driven "room" that the young players were allowed to emerge in. It was more like those teams drafted alot of really good players over the period of 3-5 years and put all of those really good young players together and then they emerged.

If I'm to sacrifice bullets in the chamber like draft picks to get really good players for the "benefit" of having some solid vets like Chris Clark or Lee Stempniak or whomever then I don't know how i feel about that. It's a case by case basis, but I would have no problem going for a couple full scorched earth 10 pick drafts if that's the plan.

Pittsburgh
In Crosby's rookie season had 11 guys that were 30+ play at least 1/4 of the season including:

Mario Lemieux, Mark Recchi, John LeClair and Sergei Gonchar.

Crosby was also 1 of only 4 players (Fleury, Christensen and Talbot the others) under the age of 22 to even dress for the Penguins that year.

Mark Recchi, John Leclair, Ryan Malone, Ziggy Palffy and a combination Lemieux and Colby Armstrong filled out the top 6.
Chicago

In Toew's rookie season the Hawks had 8 guys that were 30+ that played at least 1/4 of the season including:

Robert Lang, Yanic Perreault, Martin Lapointe and Craig Adams

Toews was one of 11 players under 22 to suit up for the Hawks, but 7 of them played 20 games or less. Kane, Barker and Bolland wer ethe only other regulars under 22.

Robert Lang, Patrick Sharp, Jason Williams and Martin Havlat (when healthy) filled out the top 6 on that Hawks club.

In comparison...

Edmonton

Now I am going to use RNH here for the Oilers as he is the youngest of their "big 4" that didn't start in a shortened season.

In RNH's rookie season the Oilers had 6 guys that were 30+ played at leasr 1/4 of the season including:

Andy Sutton, Ryan Smyth, Eric Belanger, Shawn Horcoff and Darcy Hordichuk

RNH was one of 8 players to suit up under 22 for the Oilers, 6 of them played at least 20 games. Tuebert, Eberle, MPS, lander and Hall were the other regulars under 22.

Their top 6 consisted of RNH (18), Eberle (21), Hall (19), Gagner (22), Smyth (35) and Hemsky (28)

The Oilers had less older players and a similar number of young players, but used their younger players in bigger roles without the veteran support that the Hawks and Penguins had.

[Enoch Root]

and the thing about those lists is that they had real leaders - guys who were, or had been top NHLers. Chicago also had Ladd and then went and got Hossa

Compared to the Oiler list of veterans as 3rd and 4th liners

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

and the thing about those lists is that they had real leaders - guys who were, or had been top NHLers. Chicago also had Ladd and then went and got Hossa

Compared to the Oiler list of veterans as 3rd and 4th liners

yep for sure and even then Toews and Crosby were said to be leaders and future captains, while Eberle, Hall, RNH and Yak received no such praise.