03-01-2014, 02:14 PM
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#241
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: 17th Ave :D
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I wonder if Putin hasn't just sent in some massive force. Takes everything. >.>
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03-01-2014, 02:17 PM
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#242
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Haifa, Israel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matty81
Russia needs to be held to account for this if they invade, totally unacceptable. I agree that you need to stabilize Ukrane but you do that in conjunction with the international community, not unilaterally.
Russia would get destroyed if this conflict escalates, not that it would be good for anybody but this isn't the 80s anymore.
Russia hasn't grown at all since the 80s, since then the states has gained approx 100 million people. They do not have the resources to duel the west on equal footing anymore.
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As Kennedy once put it, USSR has nuclear weapons to destroy USA twice. We (USA) are way stronger, than them. We can destroy them 15 times.
Make no mistake, there will be no winner, and most likely, no surviver, if any major war occurs.
Last edited by Pointman; 03-01-2014 at 02:20 PM.
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03-01-2014, 02:20 PM
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#243
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointman
As Kennedy once put it, USSR has nuclear weapons to destroy USA twice. We (USA) are way stronger, than them. We can destroy them 15 times.
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God help us if it escalates to nuclear war, I was more talking about economic sanctioning and hopefully it doesn't come to, conventional war over the Ukraine with a ground campaign and air strikes.
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03-01-2014, 02:22 PM
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#244
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Haifa, Israel
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According to Russian media, both Crimea and Donetsk region announced the vote on whether they want to stay with Ukraine. Ukraine goverment has called these votes "illegal".
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03-01-2014, 02:37 PM
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#245
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
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Pointman,
are you Russian or Canadian living in Russia?
__________________
Thank you for everything CP. Good memories and thankful for everything that has been done to help me out. I will no longer take part on these boards. Take care, Go Flames Go.
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03-01-2014, 02:39 PM
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#246
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PIMking
Pointman,
are you Russian or Canadian living in Russia?
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Location: Moscow, Russia
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03-01-2014, 02:40 PM
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#247
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flameswin
Location: Moscow, Russia
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Yes, but doesn't mean he's Russian....
We have a few guys on here that live in the states that are Canadian or like Nickerjones being in Canadia and being a Yank
__________________
Thank you for everything CP. Good memories and thankful for everything that has been done to help me out. I will no longer take part on these boards. Take care, Go Flames Go.
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03-01-2014, 02:41 PM
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#248
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PIMking
Yes, but doesn't mean he's Russian....
We have a few guys on here that live in the states that are Canadian or like Nickerjones being in Canadia and being a Yank
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Yeah, totally misread your post. 
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03-01-2014, 02:44 PM
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#249
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flameswin
Yeah, totally misread your post. |
Happens to the best of us...
Enjoy a Cyber beer fella
__________________
Thank you for everything CP. Good memories and thankful for everything that has been done to help me out. I will no longer take part on these boards. Take care, Go Flames Go.
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03-01-2014, 03:02 PM
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#250
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Haifa, Israel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PIMking
Yes, but doesn't mean he's Russian....
We have a few guys on here that live in the states that are Canadian or like Nickerjones being in Canadia and being a Yank
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I'm Russian.
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03-01-2014, 03:07 PM
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#251
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Haifa, Israel
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Samantha Power, the US ambassador to the UN has called for the immediate deployment of international observers to Crimea.
This might be exactly what Putin is looking for. There's no need to "annex" Crimea. Just letting Crimeans vote on their future under the watch of internation observers should be good enough. If there are fair and honest elections in Crimea, there's good chance they will vote to join Russia - simply because most are Russians and would like to live in rich country rather than in bankrupt unstable country.
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03-01-2014, 03:27 PM
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#252
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointman
Samantha Power, the US ambassador to the UN has called for the immediate deployment of international observers to Crimea.
This might be exactly what Putin is looking for. There's no need to "annex" Crimea. Just letting Crimeans vote on their future under the watch of internation observers should be good enough. If there are fair and honest elections in Crimea, there's good chance they will vote to join Russia - simply because most are Russians and would like to live in rich country rather than in bankrupt unstable country.
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It's really not a free and fair vote with troops on your streets. A vote or not, Russia will get the Crimea. Putin just wants a thin veil of legitimacy to his actions violating sovereign borders. The vote would have happened without his interference given the demographics of the area and fragmented nature of the political situation. Putin's move is nothing more than insurance.
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03-01-2014, 03:36 PM
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#253
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Haifa, Israel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlameOn
It's really not a free and fair vote with troops on your streets. A vote or not, Russia will get the Crimea. Putin just wants a thin veil of legitimacy to his actions violating sovereign borders. The vote would have happened without his interference given the demographics of the area and fragmented nature of the political situation. Putin's move is nothing more than insurance.
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Yes, a lot like insurance. Ukrainian government have caimed that they will ignore any such vote by Crimea and Donetsk. So I tend to believe that the goal of the troops is to prevent pro-goverment forces intervention into Crimea, freeze the current situation for some time and convince Obama et al, that Crimea should vote on its future. Then Putin may even withdraw troops and let EU/UN peacemakers to take over to give the vote more legit feel. Putin doesn't need troops to affect the results of the vote, he's likely going to win it anyway, he only needs troops to ensure that the vote will happen and will not be interfered with by Ukrainian governmate.
Last edited by Pointman; 03-01-2014 at 03:39 PM.
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03-01-2014, 03:44 PM
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#254
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Salmon with Arms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointman
Yes, a lot like insurance. Ukrainian government have caimed that they will ignore any such vote by Crimea and Donetsk. So I tend to believe that the goal of the troops is to prevent pro-goverment forces intervention into Crimea, freeze the current situation for some time and convince Obama et al, that Crimea should vote on its future. Then Putin may even withdraw troops and let EU/UN peacemakers to take over to give the vote more legit feel. Putin doesn't need troops to affect the results of the vote, he's likely going to win it anyway, he only needs troops to ensure that the vote will happen and will not be interfered with by Ukrainian governmate.
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And is that a bad solution for anyone? Honest question. No bloodshed, people's right to self determination and the UN looks like it did something
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03-01-2014, 03:47 PM
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#255
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Haifa, Israel
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Russian media reports, Putin and Obama were talking for an hour and a half. No direct results are reported yet. Keep in mind that it's 2-46 AM at Moscow now.
Edit: It's on Kremlin's official site. By the way, a decent english-language source of Russian side of the story:
http://eng.kremlin.ru
Last edited by Pointman; 03-01-2014 at 03:49 PM.
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03-01-2014, 03:52 PM
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#256
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Haifa, Israel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist
And is that a bad solution for anyone? Honest question. No bloodshed, people's right to self determination and the UN looks like it did something
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Would be a win for everyone, that's my I'm hoping for it.
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03-01-2014, 04:05 PM
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#257
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist
And is that a bad solution for anyone? Honest question. No bloodshed, people's right to self determination and the UN looks like it did something
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Plenty bad for future stability in the region and knowing Russia has no respect for national borders and sovereignty. They invaded without a declaration of war, seized airports and cut off communications while landing troops all under the guise of a "people's militia".
Not the first time they've done this either. For a country that advocates respecting the internal affairs of other nations when it's convenient for them (Syria, Chechnya, etc), it's an extremely dangerous precedent. Meanwhile Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and Kazakhstan look on nervously.
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03-01-2014, 04:16 PM
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#258
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: The centre of everything
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03-01-2014, 04:18 PM
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#259
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Salmon with Arms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlameOn
Plenty bad for future stability in the region and knowing Russia has no respect for national borders and sovereignty. They invaded without a declaration of war, seized airports and cut off communications while landing troops all under the guise of a "people's militia".
Not the first time they've done this either. For a country that advocates respecting the internal affairs of other nations when it's convenient for them (Syria, Chechnya, etc), it's an extremely dangerous precedent. Meanwhile Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and Kazakhstan look on nervously.
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I agree to some extent, though it's more a ramping up of territorial pressure rather than a new precedent. This went on with the US for a long time and Russia under Putin has been engaged in this for a while
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03-01-2014, 04:21 PM
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#260
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointman
According to Russian media, both Crimea and Donetsk region announced the vote on whether they want to stay with Ukraine. Ukraine goverment has called these votes "illegal".
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That those votes are illegal goes without saying. Anything the Crimean parliament does is invalid given the fact that any action is taken under duress, and the fact that nobody knows who is actually voting.
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