[Trade] [STL/BUF] R.Miller & S.Ott for Halak,Stewart,Carrier,2015 1st,conditional 2014 1st

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Red John

Many seem to disagree but this is a hell of a first trade for Tim Murray. Keep in mind he had a goalie going UFA he was going to lose anyway. Throw in a terrible goalie market with really only one suitor.

The biggest thing was getting a 2015 1st rounder. That was huge; that draft is going to be stacked. Yes he had to take back Stewart but another conditional 2014 1st? And a 2nd from this past year (Carrier). Best case scenario Stewart looks interested next year and actually chips in some offense.

It wasn't really a bad deal for the Blues as these are the kind of trades you make to win the Stanley Cup and its nice to see them finally going all-in instead of being perennial bridesmaid.

But man the Sabres hit this out of the park.

The 2015 pick is going to be 25-30... lets not go crazy. No one knows what type of players are going to be around at that point next year yet.

[TKB]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Love what Buffalo is up to recently.

Their defense prospects are out of this world. Wotherspoon or Sieloff might only be 7th or 8th among theirs. Add in Grigerenko + Girgensons and likely Reinhart to their forward group + all the other prospects they'll add through the draft.

The only area they'll lack in is between the pipes, but that's easy enough to get.

Not sure how Hackett has been developing but I thought he was suppose to be a very good young goalie? Love this trade for Buffalo, they just traded two soon to be UFA's that they probably wouldn't of signed anyways for a huge return. On top of it they could turn Stewart and Halak into even more assets for there rebuild.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by FAN

Yet Buffalo's attendance is pretty good this year. They also happen to have a rich owner who doesn't care if he's making money off the team.

They are down 3% this year. Back in the late early 00s, they used to have Canadian dollar at par games (this was back when the CAD was at 0.65 USD) four/five a year to get fans in the building.

Its a good hockey market, but its not a place where they can suck for years and keep filling the arena.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by TKB

Not sure how Hackett has been developing but I thought he was suppose to be a very good young goalie? Love this trade for Buffalo, they just traded two soon to be UFA's that they probably wouldn't of signed anyways for a huge return. On top of it they could turn Stewart and Halak into even more assets for there rebuild.

He has kind of been mediocre this year. They do have Linus Ullmark as well, who is playing well overseas, but he's at least 3 years away from being an NHLer if at all.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

They are down 3% this year. Back in the late early 00s, they used to have Canadian dollar at par games (this was back when the CAD was at 0.65 USD) four/five a year to get fans in the building.

Its a good hockey market, but its not a place where they can suck for years and keep filling the arena.

And the 'sell everything and get as many picks as you can' strategy seems great at first - it's easy to execute the first phase of that strategy.

However, they are going to ice a CHL team next year. Rushing young players into the NHL - especially defensemen - is not usually a good way to develop players.

I know they have a lot of picks and prospects now and coming in the next couple years, but they are in for some really tough times. And avoiding becoming Florida or the Islanders is going to be their challenge over the next 3 years.

[Red John]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

The 2015 pick is going to be 25-30... lets not go crazy. No one knows what type of players are going to be around at that point next year yet.

Scouts have a pretty good idea, and word is the draft will be deeper than 2013 and probably closer to 2003 in terms of elite talent available all through the first round.

It's not going to be a pick that gets McDavid but make no mistake that's a very valuable piece the Sabres are getting.

[PeteMoss]

Let's assume the Blues pick is 25th in 2015 (picked at random but probably the highest it will be), here's the last 15 guys selected 25th:

Michael McCarron
Jordan Schmaltz
Stuart Percy
Quinton Howden
Jordan Caron
Greg Neimsz
Patrick White
Patrik Berglund
Andrew Cogliano
Rob Schremp
Anthony Stewart
Cam Ward
Alexander Perezhogin
Steve Ott
Mikhail Kuleshov

People look at these draft picks and think, they're going to get the Ott or Ward from that list but there are more likely to get a guy who barely plays in the NHL.

Fans overrate picks and prospects like crazy these days. Easiest job in the world for fan support is to be a rebuilding GM. People were starting to like Feaster who's history showed him to be terrible when he started to acquire the magic jelly beans of prospects/draft picks. Its virtually a no-lose situation for a GM. If you acquire an established player people know what you've got right away, but a draft pick you've got 4 years of waiting to see the return.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Red John

Scouts have a pretty good idea, and word is the draft will be deeper than 2013 and probably closer to 2003 in terms of elite talent available all through the first round.

It's not going to be a pick that gets McDavid but make no mistake that's a very valuable piece the Sabres are getting.

Pick 25-30 in 2003:

Anthony Stewart
Brian Boyle
Jeff Tambellini
Corey Perry
Patrick Eaves
Shawn Belle

1 superstar, two 3rd/4th line NHLers, 3 washouts.

[Red John]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Pick 25-30 in 2003:

Anthony Stewart
Brian Boyle
Jeff Tambellini
Corey Perry
Patrick Eaves
Shawn Belle

1 superstar, two 3rd/4th line NHLers, 3 washouts.

1 in 6 shot at getting a superstar at that spot is great odds.

You have to remember the value of that pick will be high. It can be used to trade package for a good young player if the Sabres so choose. It'll also be valuable as teams will want to grab a second 1st rounder to move up and grab a guy they like (like Anahheim did with Perry in 2003).

Understand your point about magic beans and all that but make no mistake getting that pick was a real coup.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Let's assume the Blues pick is 25th in 2015 (picked at random but probably the highest it will be), here's the last 15 guys selected 25th:

Michael McCarron
Jordan Schmaltz
Stuart Percy
Quinton Howden
Jordan Caron
Greg Neimsz
Patrick White
Patrik Berglund
Andrew Cogliano
Rob Schremp
Anthony Stewart
Cam Ward
Alexander Perezhogin
Steve Ott
Mikhail Kuleshov

People look at these draft picks and think, they're going to get the Ott or Ward from that list but there are more likely to get a guy who barely plays in the NHL.

Fans overrate picks and prospects like crazy these days. Easiest job in the world for fan support is to be a rebuilding GM. People were starting to like Feaster who's history showed him to be terrible when he started to acquire the magic jelly beans of prospects/draft picks. Its virtually a no-lose situation for a GM. If you acquire an established player people know what you've got right away, but a draft pick you've got 4 years of waiting to see the return.

Yes, any individual pick is probably a miss. But that's precisely why you need a lot of them. If half of he Flames' 1st and 2nd round picks bust, and half of the Sabres' picks bust, who has the better pool of young talent in four years?

As bad as the odds of hitting a home run in the draft are, there's even worse odds of stealing a young guy who develops into a star from under the nose of the team that drafted him.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Red John

1 in 6 shot at getting a superstar at that spot is great odds.

You have to remember the value of that pick will be high. It can be used to trade package for a good young player if the Sabres so choose. It'll also be valuable as teams will want to grab a second 1st rounder to move up and grab a guy they like (like Anahheim did with Perry in 2003).

Understand your point about magic beans and all that but make no mistake getting that pick was a real coup.

1 of 6 IF the 2015 draft is as good as the best draft of all time (which is highly unlikely given its only happened once in the history of the league) and scouting hasn't improved to allow a Corey Perry fall below Hugh Jessiman/Steve Bernier, etc.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Yes, any individual pick is probably a miss. But that's precisely why you need a lot of them. If half of he Flames' 1st and 2nd round picks bust, and half of the Sabres' picks bust, who has the better pool of young talent in four years?

As bad as the odds of hitting a home run in the draft are, there's even worse odds of stealing a young guy who develops into a star from under the nose of the team that drafted him.

The Sabres would... but more importantly who has the better team?

[Locke]

The Blues are rolling the dice and going for it this year. I wouldnt want to go up against them in the playoffs.

[rbochan]

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

The Sabres would... but more importantly who has the better team?

If the goal is to win the cup, you need an elite core.

To put together an elite core, you need to draft most of it.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If the goal is to win the cup, you need an elite core.

To put together an elite core, you need to draft most of it.

But you don't have to draft it all in two years - there are other parts to the equation

[timbit]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If the goal is to win the cup, you need an elite core.

To put together an elite core, you need to draft most of it.

Very true and that will not be changing anytime soon.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

But you don't have to draft it all in two years - there are other parts to the equation

This. You don't just put a team of 20 year olds on the ice (And Ville Leino) and win anything in four years. You need to have actual NHL players on your team.

Now they do have assets... could they for example trade some of these picks and prospects for say a Kesler... sure. But all they are doing right now is just plummeting to the basement. Players pick up bad habits when they lose every game known to man and its hard to fix.

[Sylvanfan]

Will be interesting to see what they do this summer. Say they give in and pay Callahan 50 million over 7 years and 35 to Bolland for the same term to get to the floor. 5 years from now these guys are major boat anchors on this team of 22 year old superstars looking for second contracts. they might better off paying guys short term like Butler/Stempniak. They will need to spend 25 million to fill 10 spots just to hit the floor, and are offering up a terrible team.

[flamesfan1297]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

1 of 6 IF the 2015 draft is as good as the best draft of all time (which is highly unlikely given its only happened once in the history of the league) and scouting hasn't improved to allow a Corey Perry fall below Hugh Jessiman/Steve Bernier, etc.

Yes of course the best draft of all time only happened once