[News Roundup] Burke does his homework. Has a hockey trade in the works?

[Caged Great]

It depends on exactly what type of guy he's referring to.

I don't like the idea of getting mediocre prospects, but if we can get someone like Damon Severson or similar type of prospects, then I wouldn't really complain.

I'd only be in favour of getting defensive players in that scenario. Because defensemen take longer, getting some that are part of the way through their development makes sense.

Otherwise get some draft picks.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I wouldn't be so sure.

The Flames' acting general manager was asked what type of players he would pursue in a trade situation.

"We would like to get a player who will help us right away, and if that is not possible then our next choice is a player who is close to playing that we think could make us better next year. And if not, we would look at draft choices," said Burke.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=444853

I have real doubts about the willingess of Flames management to patiently rebuild the roster through the draft. They're already looking for shortcuts and reclamation projects instead of demonstrating confidence in their own scouting and drafting ability.

The Sabres are doing it right:

2012: 2x 1st rounders, 1x 2nd
2013: 2x 1st rounders, 3x 2nd
2014: 3x 1st rounders, 4x 2nd *

* Assuming they get a 1st for Moulson, NYI's 1st this year, and at least a 2nd for Miller or Ott. If the NYIs defer, then 2x 1st rounders in 2015.

That's what a rebuild looks like. The Flames got off to a good start last season. If they don't walk into 2014 draft with more 1st or 2nd rounders, I'd hesitate to even call it a rebuild. Drafting the regular allotment of players each draft isn't any kind of a strategy to dramatically improve over your rivals in the conference, all of whom already have stronger rosters and have the same allotment of picks you do.

I took it to mean young players would who help the team now. Its not like a team that acquires Cammy or another rental guy is going to be trade key cogs off their roster.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by FakenHaken

Right and that story is acceptable because Chiarelli doesn't have any other agenda. Oh that's right he needed to save face with the franchise and because he told everyone including TSN we have struck a deal when in fact he didn't have the paper work to support his claims.

Personally, I am more willing to accept the story from the people who were actually in that boardroom meeting, over someone who wasn't present and would not have actually even been on a conference call in that meeting.

Yeah sorry, Peter Chiarelli is not going to outright lie about not getting a trade done. He was obviously bargaining in good faith with Feaster and then it was pulled off the table as a result of Iginla.

I don't know why you're even arguing this. Even Feaster insinuated that the exact same thing happened. Feaster was a terrible GM, but even that moron wasn't going to work out a deal with a team that he knew Iginla wasn't going to accept a trade to.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I wouldn't be so sure.

The Flames' acting general manager was asked what type of players he would pursue in a trade situation.

"We would like to get a player who will help us right away, and if that is not possible then our next choice is a player who is close to playing that we think could make us better next year. And if not, we would look at draft choices," said Burke.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=444853

I have real doubts about the willingess of Flames management to patiently rebuild the roster through the draft. They're already looking for shortcuts and reclamation projects instead of demonstrating confidence in their own scouting and drafting ability.

The Sabres are doing it right:

2012: 2x 1st rounders, 1x 2nd
2013: 2x 1st rounders, 3x 2nd
2014: 3x 1st rounders, 4x 2nd *

* Assuming they get a 1st for Moulson, NYI's 1st this year, and at least a 2nd for Miller or Ott. If the NYIs defer, then 2x 1st rounders in 2015.

That's what a rebuild looks like. The Flames got off to a good start last season. If they don't walk into 2014 draft with more 1st or 2nd rounders, I'd hesitate to even call it a rebuild. Drafting the regular allotment of players each draft isn't any kind of a strategy to dramatically improve over your rivals in the conference, all of whom already have stronger rosters and have the same allotment of picks you do.

Has the makings of a good bet.

Which team will return to respectability/contender faster the properly rebuilding Sabres or the jumpstarting Flames?

Both teams started their rebuilds at about the same time no? Would make an interesting comparison.

[Tinordi]

The mental gymnastics some fans will undertake to absolve the Flames and Iginla of blame during the whole trade debacle is a test case for a psychology paper.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The mental gymnastics some fans will undertake to absolve the Flames and Iginla of blame during the whole trade debacle is a test case for a psychology paper.

Some people can't rationalize that Iginla did a dick thing there. First submitting a list of teams that were okay, and then changing his mind last second to only Pittsburgh, especially when the reported return from Boston was vastly greater and would've left the Flames in a better spot after he left. He kind of screwed us over a bit with that whole thing, and probably cost Feaster his job on top of it.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

This next part isn't pointed at Cliff but it is funny that the Burke haters have quickly become Feaster apologists. Burke knows we are in for a couple hard years but you look at what Edmonton has done by trading all their vets for picks and wing forced to put their lotto picks in leadership roles at 18-19.

But did Edmonton really do that - acquire lots of picks? Nope. They just sucked and drafted high.

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Those players should not have to carry the load. In addition Calgary has some nice prospects in the 18-21 age range that are knocking on the door. Outside of Bouma, Backlund, Brodie, Colborne they lack 22-25 year olds on the roster. If Burke can add a nice young player and a 2nd round pick this deadline we will be in fine shape in terms of the rebuild. Still poised to pick high on 2015 where we can potentially land the next superstar this franchise needs

We are probably looking at 3-4 prospects who will make it as genuine NHLers. Which is nice. But most NHL teams have the same. The point of a rebuild is to draft an elite core - 4 or 5 players who can lead the team to a Stanley Cup. That means you need many rolls of the dice to hit jackpot multiple times. You do that by stockpiling draft picks. Virtually every elite team in the NHL today went through a phase of multiple years where they had multiple 1st and 2nd round picks.

[Vedder]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Some people can't rationalize that Iginla did a dick thing there. First submitting a list of teams that were okay, and then changing his mind last second to only Pittsburgh, especially when the reported return from Boston was vastly greater and would've left the Flames in a better spot after he left. He kind of screwed us over a bit with that whole thing, and probably cost Feaster his job on top of it.

I don't think Feaster needed any help from Iginla to lose his job.

[Enoch Root]

Burke has also said numerous times that he doesn't want to trade away any more picks, and that he is looking to acquire more.

People get overly worked up about individual statements that are made to the media sometimes.

[Bootsy]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

All rebuilds must look the same according to Cliff. Flames had 3 1st round picks last year and currently hold a top 5 selection this year. Burke has not traded a single pick yet because he says he wants a player that can help now (Pretty sure he means someone in the 20-23 age range) or a prospect knocking on the door doesn't mean he isn't rebuilding the team the right way.

This next part isn't pointed at Cliff but it is funny that the Burke haters have quickly become Feaster apologists. Burke knows we are in for a couple hard years but you look at what Edmonton has done by trading all their vets for picks and wing forced to put their lotto picks in leadership roles at 18-19. Those players should not have to carry the load. In addition Calgary has some nice prospects in the 18-21 age range that are knocking on the door. Outside of Bouma, Backlund, Brodie, Colborne they lack 22-25 year olds on the roster. If Burke can add a nice young player and a 2nd round pick this deadline we will be in fine shape in terms of the rebuild. Still poised to pick high on 2015 where we can potentially land the next superstar this franchise needs

I agree with a lot of what you say but on the bolded part, I would argrue Edmonton's problem isn't that they got rid of their vets , it's that they gave the kids the room upon arrival. As soon as they got there it was their team and the vets took a back seat. What I like about what Calgary has done so far is made it clear that this Giordano's room. Monohan has come in embraced this and has done great at fitting in , but there's no way him or any of the other young guys will be running the room like they do up north.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Burke has also said numerous times that he doesn't want to trade away any more picks, and that he is looking to acquire more.

People get overly worked up about individual statements that are made to the media sometimes.

Perhaps. But it's understandable fans of this franchise don't have a lot of faith in the patience of management. I'll believe Burke is carrying out a patient rebuild when I see him stockpile picks for the coming two drafts. How many has he acquired so far?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Vedder

I don't think Feaster needed any help from Iginla to lose his job.

You're right, he didn't. But if the returns on trades at the deadline last season were one of the factors which resulted in the dismissal of Feaster, Iginla's behavior becomes a contributing factor.

[Vedder]

Even in that situation it was Feaster's fault due to how he handled it. Did Iginla's decision harm the Flames return? Yes. Should he have had the option in the first place? No.

He should have signed the list, and Feaster and Co. should have called him when the process was over. End of story.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I took it to mean young players would who help the team now. Its not like a team that acquires Cammy or another rental guy is going to be trade key cogs off their roster.

And it's highly unlikely those teams will give up a young roster player who will turn into an elite player on the Flames. A 1st rounder might. A couple 2nd rounders might. I'd rather have a 30 per cent shot at an elite player than a 70 per cent shot at a passable depth player. It's easy to round out a strong core with depth players. Building a core in the first place is the tough part.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The mental gymnastics some fans will undertake to absolve the Flames and Iginla of blame during the whole trade debacle is a test case for a psychology paper.

It's times like that when I am grateful to be illiterate.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Vedder

Even in that situation it was Feaster's fault due to how he handled it. Did Iginla's decision harm the Flames return? Yes. Should he have had the option in the first place? No.

He should have signed the list, and Feaster and Co. should have called him when the process was over. End of story.

And a lot of us don't think Feaster had a free hand to deal with Iginla however he wanted, because Iginla was a very special individual to Feaster's bosses King and Edwards. Iginla was treated differently from other players. But in the end, he did what was right for him, not what was right for the Flames. It wasn't an equitable relationship.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Rubicant

I didn't like that quote either. We shall see what actually transpires as perhaps Burke is simply telling the media one thing while desiring the other so as to not give his cards away, but they really should be focusing on acquiring draft picks.

Lots of them.

If there is a young, almost established player, who is closer to being an NHL player than an unknown prospect, then that is the sensible route to go. If he means a 27-30 year-old player, then I would rather have picks. But if it is between a player like Joe Colborne, for example, vs. a 2nd round pick, I would take the player like Joe Colborne.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And a lot of us don't think Feaster had a free hand to deal with Iginla however he wanted, because Iginla was a very special individual to Feaster's bosses King and Edwards. Iginla was treated differently from other players. But in the end, he did what was right for him, not what was right for the Flames. It wasn't an equitable relationship.

Iginla is entitled to do what is right for Iginla. The problem lies in that the Flames tried to do what was right for Iginla rather than what is right for them. It was a nice sentiment at the time but it will hurt us in the long run for perhaps no measurable gain. Will we be looked on more favorably by, say, UFAs looking to sign somewhere, as a result of how we treated Iginla when we shipped him off? Doubtful. Possible, but doubtful.

[nik-]

A four team list in itself is pretty damn considerate in my opionion. Allowing him to then limit it further to one was ridiculous, but I still think that Iginla was the villain in that. Using the term villain lightly of course.

Don't submit a list of teams unless you're willing to go to those teams. Don't allow the team to embarrass itself trying to bend over backwards for you.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

We are probably looking at 3-4 prospects who will make it as genuine NHLers. Which is nice. But most NHL teams have the same. The point of a rebuild is to draft an elite core - 4 or 5 players who can lead the team to a Stanley Cup. That means you need many rolls of the dice to hit jackpot multiple times. You do that by stockpiling draft picks. Virtually every elite team in the NHL today went through a phase of multiple years where they had multiple 1st and 2nd round picks.

Thats why the alternative is a prospect close to playing, or a young guy who can play now. So its not just rolling the dice on a late 1st rounder in a weak draft or 2nd rounder.