Board to decide bus beheader's fate

[Dion]

Originally Posted by pylon

Just to remind you.

He hacked a guys head off while he was alive, in what was likely the most painful horrific death you could imagine. Taunted people with the head. And ate some of the corpse.

This animal, terrorized and changed the lives of every single person on that bus, every responder, and the family. And there is a significant chance this could happen again if he goes off his medication. He has already damaged and destroyed so many lives, and we want to risk it again because we have bleeding hearts for him? I don't care what he is going through. He's a ticking time bomb. And society is far better off with this monster dead.

Would you have the same sympathy for a pedophile that claimed to be cured through chemical castration? Pedophilia is a sickness too, isn't it? Because many would argue, what this guy did was far, far worse.

It would be a huge step back for society if started putting to death those who suffer from schizophrenia. I had a good friend back in HS who suffered from that illness and tried to kill his mother. Nobody called him a monster or wished him dead. He got a proper diagnosis and was put on medication where he lead a somewhat normal life until he comitted suicide years later.

I get that Li did something horrible but to call him a monster is unfair. He didn't choose to have schizophrenia much like I didn't choose to have, aspergers syndrome, depression and anxiety dominate a good portion of my life. Sometimes life deals a cruel hand and we are left to pick up the pieces as best we can.

If he stays on his meds he is not a ticking time bomb. Even with the unescorted day passes he still has to return to the place he was living where he will be forced to take his meds. Now from what i've read I think he understands the consequences of what would happen if he came off his meds. I can tell you my good friend did.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Minnie

Vincent Li culled someone from society.

........and somehow taking another life is going to bring back the other person or make the family feel better?

[The Ditch]

Ah yes, one of my favourite calgarypuck arguments, killing is wrong so let's kill them, always gives me a good laugh.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by fotze

Just curious. Does anyone fully recover from this type of mental illness. How does one live with knowing they did this? I couldn't.

What does his family think? What is his life like? It has to be awful.

Do all the nephews rejoice when Uncle Vince is coming over for Christmas?

I just hope that he never kills anyone again, but if he does, hopefully it is himself? He was dealt a terrible brain card in life obviously.

There is no cure, just treatment. I've heard that medications to treat schizophrenia are much better than what my good friend had to take.

[Jacks]

Argue all you want over whether this guy should be alive but he should never be in public again. He has destroyed dozens of lives.

[Delthefunky]

Originally Posted by Dion

It would be a huge step back for society if started putting to death those who suffer from schizophrenia. I had a good friend back in HS who suffered from that illness and tried to kill his mother. Nobody called him a monster or wished him dead. He got a proper diagnosis and was put on medication where he lead a somewhat normal life until he comitted suicide years later.

I get that Li did something horrible but to call him a monster is unfair. He didn't choose to have schizophrenia much like I didn't choose to have, aspergers syndrome, depression and anxiety dominate a good portion of my life. Sometimes life deals a cruel hand and we are left to pick up the pieces as best we can.

If he stays on his meds he is not a ticking time bomb. Even with the unescorted day passes he still has to return to the place he was living where he will be forced to take his meds. Now from what i've read I think he understands the consequences of what would happen if he came off his meds. I can tell you my good friend did.

I'm pretty sympathetic to those with a mental illness too, and 99 times out of 100 I would say sure, if a professional believes that this person could be rehabilitated and be a part of society then of course, I would never want to stop them, but this guy sawed someone's head off without any provocation. That's pretty much the limit for me. I'm not saying we should punish this guy and make him feel full of remorse, I'm just saying that because he sawed someone's head off, he should never, ever be allowed back into society alone unsupervised.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Argue all you want over whether this guy should be alive but he should never be in public again. He has destroyed dozens of lives.

Ignorance is not a justification for saying he should never be in public.

[Nage Waza]

According to many posters here, schizophrenia is treatable and not this guys fault, so he should be let out. What about other criminals? Someone who is drunk and decides to drive? Pedophiles? Someone who is really angry? Someone who is depressed? Is it always about state of mind and if so why is anyone ever really guilty?

The guy may have been the greatest guy ever, but his crime was so bad that he should forfeit his right to freedom.

Jails are filled with people who cannot control their temper - are they not deserving of the same medical help?

Trust me, I completely understand the point some of you are making, I just think the path of letting someone out simply because there is treatment is not reasonable. The punishment should fit the crime.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by fotze

Just curious. Does anyone fully recover from this type of mental illness. How does one live with knowing they did this? I couldn't.

What does his family think? What is his life like? It has to be awful.

Do all the nephews rejoice when Uncle Vince is coming over for Christmas?

I just hope that he never kills anyone again, but if he does, hopefully it is himself? He was dealt a terrible brain card in life obviously.

Killers are wired differently, I lived a few houses away from a HA hitman in the 80's, had the guy and his wife over for parties/barbecues..etc. I just thought he liked harleys/tats and was a harmless nice guy, Only when one of his "hits" got him one night down in the states did I learn what he did for a living and that he probably killed at least 14 people in his "career"

It freaked me out for awhile.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Delthefunky

I'm pretty sympathetic to those with a mental illness too, and 99 times out of 100 I would say sure, if a professional believes that this person could be rehabilitated and be a part of society then of course, I would never want to stop them, but this guy sawed someone's head off without any provocation. That's pretty much the limit for me. I'm not saying we should punish this guy and make him feel full of remorse, I'm just saying that, because he sawed someone's head off, he should never, ever, be allowed back into society alone, unsupervised.

The voices in his head told him to saw off the head. He could not differenciate between reality and the voices he heard. Schizophrenia is treatable and countless individuals with that illness are leading productive lives in our community.

It saddens me that there is so much ignorace about this illness and that if more people could see or spot the signs we can help people get the proper diagnosis and treatment. The goal should be early intervention with a goal of preventing future incidents from happening.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Dion

Ignorance is not a justification for saying he should never be in public.

Yeah, it kind of is. Just because he didn't know that it's not socially (or legally) acceptable to cut the head off of a fellow bus passenger, and then taunt the rest of the passengers with a severed head, doesn't mean that he should be allowed the opportunity to do it again.

I'm sure he's a really nice guy when he's on his meds, but there's some pretty strong evidence that he's a real meanie when he's not on them. So, for the good of the many, he shouldn't ever be allowed to go anywhere unsupervised. Forever. He lost all his strikes in one swing.

[Delthefunky]

Originally Posted by Dion

The voices in his head told him to saw off the head. He could not differenciate between reality and the voices he heard. Schizophrenia is treatable and countless individuals with that illness are leading productive lives in our community.

It saddens me that there is so much ignorace about this illness and that if more people could see or spot the signs we can help people get the proper diagnosis and treatment. The goal should be early intervention with a goal of preventing future incidents from happening.

I get it, schizophrenia is a very real and debilitating disease that can cause extreme outbursts such as hallucinations that might convince someone to commit a horrific crime. I don't think I'm ignorant in thinking that this guy should not be allowed back into society unsupervised though. What if he does it again? This is a very real possibility.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Dion

The voices in his head told him to saw off the head. He could not differenciate between reality and the voices he heard. Schizophrenia is treatable and countless individuals with that illness are leading productive lives in our community.

It saddens me that there is so much ignorace about this illness and that if more people could see or spot the signs we can help people get the proper diagnosis and treatment. The goal should be early intervention with a goal of preventing future incidents from happening.

There's a difference between a community helping a Schizo who talks to himself than one who chops off heads and eats them. the only outdoors this guy should ever see has tall walls with barb wire on top...period.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Yeah, it kind of is. Just because he didn't know that it's not socially (or legally) acceptable to cut the head off of a fellow bus passenger, and then taunt the rest of the passengers with a severed head, doesn't mean that he should be allowed the opportunity to do it again.

He's not been given the opportunity to do it again. His being on medication will prevent that from happening again. Why someone would want to go back to hearing voices in his head and losing a sense of reality is beyond me.

I'm sure he's a really nice guy when he's on his meds, but there's some pretty strong evidence that he's a real meanie when he's not on them. So, for the good of the many, he shouldn't ever be allowed to go anywhere unsupervised. Forever. He lost all his strikes in one swing.

I understand fully what he did and how it repulses many. Personaly I'd have no fears what so ever working beside the guy. He's on medication and no threat to anyone.

Is it for the good of many or that he cut off a head and because of that he doesn't ever deserve to go anywhere unsupervised. I suspect it's the latter.

[Delthefunky]

Yes. It is totally the latter.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Delthefunky

I get it, schizophrenia is a very real and debilitating disease that can cause extreme outbursts such as hallucinations that might convince someone to commit a horrific crime. I don't think I'm ignorant in thinking that this guy should not be allowed back into society unsupervised though. What if he does it again? This is a very real possibility.

How is it possible again if he is on his meds? He has to take his meds daily wether he likes it or not. It's not as if he is been given full parole and not being asked to report back to the facility everynight. Frankly i would be shocked if he ever got parole - the severity of his illness I would hope dictates that.

[Delthefunky]

The meds aren't a sure thing. There's no guarantee that he's going to continue to respond positively -- it might only take a small impulse for him to 'relapse' into another episode. Surely, not worth the risk.

[Nage Waza]

I actually don't care if he is now perfectly fine. He should require 100% of the rest of his life away from society.

The fact I am paying taxes to sustain him outside of jail sickens me. There are many more important people to use my taxes on than this guy.

And before we have a debate on how much it costs to keep him in jail, I think he deserves less. Cheap food, cheap treatment, the minimums. Let him try to be a productive roll model in jail.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Delthefunky

The meds aren't a sure thing. There's no guarantee that he's going to continue to respond positively -- it might only take a small impulse for him to 'relapse' into another episode. Surely, not worth the risk.

With all due respect to you and others i'm going to bow out of this discussion. I realise my views are not that popular and frankly I have no desire to have these discussions to get heated

[Minnie]

Here's the thing.

I get that he has a mental illness and that lots of people do. But sometimes, medication or not, their crimes are so heinous, that there is no single reason that they should walk the street again; there should be no 'field trips' - nothing. We've done this before, locked up mentally ill murderers. Because it's what's good for the rest of us. Because it protects us. And also because it protects them. There's no guarantee that the medication will work. There's no real idea of what is going to set him off, even when he's medicated. The disease can be that strong.

I'm not unsympathetic to his issue. It's a foul fiend of a disease, I've seen it first hand. But he didn't just wander around talking to trash cans that he thought were George Washington, or stare off into space with no indication he's on this planet, or wander onto a world stage during a leader's funeral and pretend to be the sign language interpreter. He got up and and carved a man up. He ate pieces of his victim. He traumatized a great many people that day, and destroyed their lives. He split from reality completely that day, and the disease was so virulent, that the most horrific thing happened and that isn't just the sort of thing that is helped in such a short period of time - there's been a push for a long time, for him to get unsupervised field trips - it's ridiculous. I'm pretty ok with him never being able to get free from an institution for any reason, and never ever having the most minute possibility of Van Gogh'ing someone else's loved one. And, I'm comfortable with how I feel about this.

If they think he's so safe and controlled by his medication, then the board and his doctors should remain with him every minute he's not institutionalized. If they're not comfortable with that idea, I can't imagine why they think the rest of us would be.