The US Election...

[Lanny_MacDonald]

A great article on the upcoming vote in the US.

Decisions decisions decisions

[TheCommodoreAfro]

Expressed my sentiments exactly. Elect Bush, and you are simply supporting the power and might is right rationale he is purporting.

Kerry has made himself more palatable through the debates, though one wonders how Bush would be faring if he was up against a Clinton type of personality in this election.

[Bingo]

Great source!

No subjectivity in that one! Just straight facts!

[Lanny_MacDonald]

This from the guy that thinks Bill O'Reilly is a thought provoking speaker!

[Displaced Flames fan]

I particularly enjoyed the posing of this question.....

"What should the world make of America and Americans if Bush wins?"

Yep, nothing like a bunch of people who don't live in your country generalizing about all of us based on the outcome of a single election.

[Bingo]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald@Oct 10 2004, 11:06 AM
This from the guy that thinks Bill O'Reilly is a thought provoking speaker!

Lanny is that really all you got? It's the only thing you ever say in regards to myself on this site. Kind of lame. I don't agree with everything the guy has to say. I'm made that plain and clear. I don't always like his bullying though, I find most of his targets could really use a good rip and therefore I have in the past, laughed along.

That's it.

The link you put up is written by a writer with a very biased view of the proceedings in the United States. If you can't or won't admit that fine.

At least I can admit that O'Reilly leans right. Looks like you can't do the same.

[CaptainCrunch]

In my mind neither of these guys is all of that great a choice

Bush is a might is right, strength over weakness kind of guy. His three big mistakes were winning the peace, winning over the international community, his justification of the war. He's now a lame duck president, even if he wins, he will be scrutinized by everyone and might not be able to rebuild the U.S's international policy

I have no faith in Kerry, he's had the easy job in this election as he can be criticle without having to come up with a counter plan

His continual use of the statement "I have a plan" where its apparent that he dosen't have anything but the vague idea is disconcerting to me.

his flip flops on issues in the past and even into the present dosen't give me a picture of a strong man.

Right now I'd probably put an X next to Nader.

[Five-hole]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@Oct 10 2004, 10:14 AM
I particularly enjoyed the posing of this question.....

"What should the world make of America and Americans if Bush wins?"

Yep, nothing like a bunch of people who don't live in your country generalizing about all of us based on the outcome of a single election.

Yes, how offensive for another country to impose on you like that.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@Oct 10 2004, 11:14 AM
I particularly enjoyed the posing of this question.....

"What should the world make of America and Americans if Bush wins?"

Yep, nothing like a bunch of people who don't live in your country generalizing about all of us based on the outcome of a single election.

Fair enough, but that's the reality of the situation.

Like it or lump it, people all over the world are asking "how can this even be a close race"? and if he gets re-elected, few will look at the numbers and many will say "they (as in all Americans) voted for him again, they must love him".

It's simplistic and unfair, but that's the truth.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by Bingo+Oct 10 2004, 05:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bingo @ Oct 10 2004, 05:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Lanny_MacDonald@Oct 10 2004, 11:06 AM
This from the guy that thinks Bill O'Reilly is a thought provoking speaker!

Lanny is that really all you got? It's the only thing you ever say in regards to myself on this site. Kind of lame. I don't agree with everything the guy has to say. I'm made that plain and clear. I don't always like his bullying though, I find most of his targets could really use a good rip and therefore I have in the past, laughed along.

That's it.

The link you put up is written by a writer with a very biased view of the proceedings in the United States. If you can't or won't admit that fine.

At least I can admit that O'Reilly leans right. Looks like you can't do the same. [/b][/quote]
Aww Bingo, you want a tissue? That was just as good a response to your crap.

"Great source!

No subjectivity in that one! Just straight facts! "

Hmmmm, the article WAS an opinion piece. You remember opinion pieces don't you? The same thing your hero Bill O'Reilly does ad naseum. People have the right to write opinion pieces and I personally liked it so I posted it. Get over it. Try bringing a more substantial argument yourself next time.

[Bingo]

No I don't need a tissue ...

never have actually.

I've known you for what? 8 years? Just when do you plan to grow up? I could care less if you agree with me, but I'm sick and tired of personal attacks and putting words in mouthes that don't belong.

Bring your game up a notch or take it somewhere else.

Even when confronted you just do the same thing ... I guess my question in the last post "is that all you have?" should, in fact, be answered "yes ... that's all you have"

I never said it wasn't an opinion piece, ... I just said it was clearly not an objective view of this election, making it just rhetoric, like 90% of the opinions seen and heard on TV and in print media these days.

Frankly I'm tired of opinion pieces from clearly defined biased view points. Big waste of time. It's like watching Larry King after a debate and seeing a Democrat Senator think Kerry won, and then a Repubican party member thinking Bush won. Who cares? Thinks like you're "great article" are a big waste of grey matter.

[Five-hole]

I care Bingo. Don't speak for me please, I enjoyed reading the article. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's a worthless piece of crap opinion article.

And also, what is an "objective view of this election"? I'm not sure anyone, anywhere is objective about this election. Everyone has something to say and, yes, that includes those that don't agree with your viewpoint.

You say it yourself -- don't like it, don't read it.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by Bingo@Oct 10 2004, 07:02 PM
No I don't need a tissue ...

never have actually.

I've known you for what? 8 years? Just when do you plan to grow up? I could care less if you agree with me, but I'm sick and tired of personal attacks and putting words in mouthes that don't belong.

Bring your game up a notch or take it somewhere else.

Even when confronted you just do the same thing ... I guess my question in the last post "is that all you have?" should, in fact, be answered "yes ... that's all you have"

I never said it wasn't an opinion piece, ... I just said it was clearly not an objective view of this election, making it just rhetoric, like 90% of the opinions seen and heard on TV and in print media these days.

Frankly I'm tired of opinion pieces from clearly defined biased view points. Big waste of time. It's like watching Larry King after a debate and seeing a Democrat Senator think Kerry won, and then a Repubican party member thinking Bush won. Who cares? Thinks like you're "great article" are a big waste of grey matter.

Just so I know the rules, does this mean no more opinion pieces? And does this also apply equally to Cowperson and Tranny, or is this "opinion ban" just related to content that I find interesting?

[Bingo]

[quote]Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald@Oct 10 2004, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Bingo,Oct 10 2004, 07:02 PM

No I don't need a tissue ...

never have actually.

I've known you for what? 8 years? Just when do you plan to grow up? I could care less if you agree with me, but I'm sick and tired of personal attacks and putting words in mouthes that don't belong.

Bring your game up a notch or take it somewhere else.

Five Hole ... I didn't speak for anyone. I said I THINK they are a waste of grey matter. If you like to read scathing articles that are literary "yes men" for your point of view ... fill your boots.

I lean to the right and could read Ann Coulter all day but frankly she bothers me as much as extreme leftists.

A waste of time FOR ME.

Rules?

When did I ban the use of linking opinion pieces?

I think if you read back you'll see I didn't ban them in any way shape or form. I do think you tend to pull the fringe into the debate more than most. I could post Newsmax or Media Research Center or WorldNet views all day that would prop up the right side and bash the left, but they wouldn't be any more of a confirmation in this debate than fluff from the other side.

But call one of them a "great article" and you're bound to get some differing views. That's pretty much why I don't post links to articles on the US election. Seems like everyone of them these days are coming from a jaded point of view.

[Bingo]

Originally posted by Five-hole@Oct 10 2004, 01:38 PM
I care Bingo. Don't speak for me please, I enjoyed reading the article. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's a worthless piece of crap opinion article.

And also, what is an "objective view of this election"? I'm not sure anyone, anywhere is objective about this election. Everyone has something to say and, yes, that includes those that don't agree with your viewpoint.

You say it yourself -- don't like it, don't read it.

Five Hole ...

I didn't speak for anyone but myself. I said I THINK they are a waste of grey matter.

If you want to read things that back your every opinion regardless of fact fill your boots.

For me it's a wate of time.

Take Ann Coulter for example. Very right wing in everything she says, but I can't stand to read her either. A big waste of time because you know she's jaded going in.

Can't learn much from a person only willing to see one side of an issue.\

Waste of time FOR ME

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by Bingo@Oct 10 2004, 08:20 PM

I think if you read back you'll see I didn't ban them in any way shape or form. I do think you tend to pull the fringe into the debate more than most. I could post Newsmax or Media Research Center or WorldNet views all day that would prop up the right side and bash the left, but they wouldn't be any more of a confirmation in this debate than fluff from the other side.

But call one of them a "great article" and you're bound to get some differing views. That's pretty much why I don't post links to articles on the US election. Seems like everyone of them these days are coming from a jaded point of view.

The fringe? The Guardian is fringe? Okay. I guess anyone left of FoxNews is conisdered fringe these days. Hopefully the Neo-cons get bounced so Fox returns to the fringe where it belongs and some normalcy returns to the political spectrum.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by Five-hole+Oct 10 2004, 06:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Five-hole @ Oct 10 2004, 06:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Displaced Flames fan@Oct 10 2004, 10:14 AM
I particularly enjoyed the posing of this question.....

"What should the world make of America and Americans if Bush wins?"

Yep, nothing like a bunch of people who don't live in your country generalizing about all of us based on the outcome of a single election.

Yes, how offensive for another country to impose on you like that. [/b][/quote]
Canadians complain about generalizations all the time. Am I not allowed to?

[Bingo]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald+Oct 10 2004, 03:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lanny_MacDonald @ Oct 10 2004, 03:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Bingo@Oct 10 2004, 08:20 PM

I think if you read back you'll see I didn't ban them in any way shape or form. I do think you tend to pull the fringe into the debate more than most. I could post Newsmax or Media Research Center or WorldNet views all day that would prop up the right side and bash the left, but they wouldn't be any more of a confirmation in this debate than fluff from the other side.

But call one of them a "great article" and you're bound to get some differing views. That's pretty much why I don't post links to articles on the US election. Seems like everyone of them these days are coming from a jaded point of view.

The fringe? The Guardian is fringe? Okay. I guess anyone left of FoxNews is conisdered fringe these days. Hopefully the Neo-cons get bounced so Fox returns to the fringe where it belongs and some normalcy returns to the political spectrum. [/b][/quote]
Actually I wasn't calling the Guardian in particular the "fringe" but some of the other stuff you've posted that has no real anchor in proven reality.

Have you noticed you're pattern yet buddy?

I point out the article you posted had a fairly sharp axe to grind ... you rub O'Reilly in my face.

I point out that you always rub O'Reilly in my face regardless of the situation and you come back with "your hero O'Reilly"

I suggest you grow up and you take a run at Fox News.

I've heard of one trick ponies, but I'm not sure you're even that.

I honestly don't care if we agree Lanny, in fact I think I'd sleep better at night if we were held appart by a lot of real estate on the old opinion pole, but I don't feel the need to take a run at you or make pathetic jokes if I disagree with your opinion.

Why don't you try the same with me?

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@Oct 10 2004, 05:14 PM
I particularly enjoyed the posing of this question.....

"What should the world make of America and Americans if Bush wins?"

Yep, nothing like a bunch of people who don't live in your country generalizing about all of us based on the outcome of a single election.

Well Dis, what should the world think? Seriously? The rest of the world has been sitting back watching the events unfold. Now here is the way I think the rest of the world has seen the events of the last four years unfold.

1) On September 11th, 2001, the WORLD was horrified with what took place in New York and Washington. The WORLD sympathized with America and the majority of the citizens of the WORLD became Americans for a short time. The WORLD was unified in a battle that touched every corner of the planet.

2) America showed the evidence that it was alQeada who did this. The WORLD was behind America and believed that AFGHANISTAN was the place to fight the first battle against terrorism. Other major, peacekeeping, nations joined the United States in going into Afghanistan after al Qeada. The WORLD viewed this as a just military action, even if it did turn political with the replacement of the government in question.

Now this is when things go bad.

3) The United States made a questionable decision to make a move on Iraq. Now the majority of the WORLD was skeptical because of the past actions of the US in Iraq. Was this an axe to grind, or was there an actual link to terrorism? The Bush Administration took their argument to the WORLD, through the United Nations, and presented their case. What the WORLD found out whas that George Bush and Company had decided to expand the scope of the original target, al Qeada and terrorist organizations, and start focusing on an old enemy that could support terrorism. The evidence was presented, and it was NOT convincing. The WORLD made the decision that the reasoning for going into Iraq (WMDs, which was really off topic to begin with) was not justified and that further investigation through existining means was more than satisfactory. The United States made the decision to go against this ruling and unilaterally for a "coalition" and go into Iraq to bring down the dictator and find the WMDs that were such a threat to America. So with a coalition of small nations in need of US foreign aid the United States invaded Iraq AGAINST the wishes of the WORLD.

4) America invades Iraq and then proceeds to do at Abu Grahib prison exactly what they accused Saddam Hussein of doing. The WORLD was watching as Americans went in an tortured and humiliated prisoners against the rules of the Geneva convention.

5) America does and says very little after Russia suffers from a horrific terror attack. No offer for a cooperative venture amongst all nations to end this threat, just another day that office for the President of the US and his agenda in Iraq.

5) As it turns out, nothing that America said about Iraq, outside of Hussein being a dictator, proved to be correct. The evidence that much of the WORLD called contrived turned out to be just that. In fact, it turns out that the UN's sanctions were more than effective and that Hussein was not considered much of a threat at all.

The WORLD imparted its trust to the United States and President Bush thanked the community by repeatedly lying about his motives and reasons for going into Iraq. To add to that he has never been straight with the US people in regards to the progress of finding the terrorists and has made a half hearted effort in the eyes of much of the world. President Bush has been made out to be a lier of substantial proportions and has suppressed the truth from his people. He has run the economy into a a bad position and has left a deficit that your children's children will be paying off. The WORLD has been witness to this and knows what an unethical character George Bush is. They wonder how America cannot see this.

These are the perception that the WORLD gets to dwell on. They get to sit back and wonder just how the American people can vote for a man of such questionable character. The United States likes to hold itself above everyone else when it comes to morals and doing the right thing. How can America be doing the right thing by giving George W. Bush four more years in office? How can voting for a corrupt administration that openly lies be anything but an afront to the world?

So what should the world think? I think the world should think that America gets what it deserves. The next time that something happens, and according to the Bush Administration it IS going to happen and that it is only a matter of time, the world will take more of a standoffish approach and not have such a sympathetic view. They will send condolence cards, but as far as trusting the United States to do the right thing, well that trust went out the window four years ago. Perople will have one hand on their gun when they have meetings with George Bush.

[TheCommodoreAfro]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@Oct 11 2004, 02:14 AM
I particularly enjoyed the posing of this question.....

"What should the world make of America and Americans if Bush wins?"

Yep, nothing like a bunch of people who don't live in your country generalizing about all of us based on the outcome of a single election.

Like it or not, many Americans are even asking the same kind of thing.

Here

Here

and Here

The point is, people around the world see all of the deciet and lies, the crapping on the rest of the world, how these lies got him into a questionable war with 1000 dead and counting of his own people, along with countless Iraqis. This does give people the impression abroad that they are either gullible, scared or bloodthirsty. Many Americans also believe this, as well, so it's not just an apparent "fringe" British newspaper (with a few million circulation, BTW), this kind of attituted is prevalent around the globe. Most people in countries that aren't the USA support and are hoping for Kerry.

The reason for this is simple. Those countries, especially the ones who have sent armies (I don't use the word "support" because there is none) is that now they are also targets. They want to see change as it will make them safer from Al-Queda. Spain ousted their prime minister for trying lie his way out of the Madrid bombings - something bad but not nearly as the full-on myth perpetrated by the current US Administration - and wonder why the USA doesn't seem willing to do the same.

The perception abroad is that there is no question Bush should be gone as President and the article is not fringe - it's how most of the world feels. If Bush is reelected (thought I feel he is done) expect rolling of eyes in the rest of the world. Not that the USA has traditionally given a crap about what anyone else in the world thinks anyway.