[GDT] February 17 General Thread

[puffnstuff]

The Korean womens curling team is playing well...ooops spoke too soon, gave up a steal.
They also look (for lack of a better word) adorable.

[FFR]

Canada 3 is next sled (I think) in the fourth run of 2-man bobsled. Currently sitting fourth.

Canada 2 moved up a spot but not close to a medal.

[GirlySports]

[FFR]

Poor fourth run for Canada 3. Too many mistakes. Will not win a medal. Disappointing but hopefully Canada will have some more success in four-man later in the week.

[Kelekin]

Yeah, it's disappointing, but despite what any of the commentators make you think, none of the Canadian teams are ranked in the top 5 in the world, they actually all finished about what they are ranked, and a great showing from Canada 3.

[FFR]

Originally Posted by Kelekin

Yeah, it's disappointing, but despite what any of the commentators make you think, none of the Canadian teams are ranked in the top 5 in the world, they actually all finished about what they are ranked, and a great showing from Canada 3.

Oh I know that they weren't ranked top 5 - but when you are that close to a medal it's a bit of a let down. A mostly mistake free run could have resulted in a medal. Great showing and all but I bet if you asked Canada 3 they wouldn't be happy with their run. They are there to win - not put up a great showing.

[Kelekin]

Originally Posted by FFR

Oh I know that they weren't ranked top 5 - but when you are that close to a medal it's a bit of a let down. A mostly mistake free run could have resulted in a medal. Great showing and all but I bet if you asked Canada 3 they wouldn't be happy with their run. They are there to win - not put up a great showing.

Well yeah, I mean, I'm pretty sure this is how 98% of the athletes feel about their performance.

Either way, good job to them.

[FFR]

Originally Posted by Kelekin

Well yeah, I mean, I'm pretty sure this is how 98% of the athletes feel about their performance.

Either way, good job to them.

I just think the stereotypical Canadian response of "well they had a good showing for them" needs to change if we, as a nation, want to be competitive in sport. I think it's starting to change but I think we need to hold ourselves to a higher level - especially when a medal is in reach and mistakes affect the result (rather than the performance of others).

Not saying this is you specifically, Kelekin - just a general thought about how Canadians respond to result in sport.

[squiggs96]

I see the playoff rounds are set for men's hockey. I wish Charlie Simmer was calling the game between Czech Republic and Slovakia. I still think he'd find a way to say Czechoslovakia. Which team would he think Hudler should be one?

[PeteMoss]

Well this woman's game is over.

[GirlySports]

Curling is over too.

Just Aerials left.

[Kelekin]

Originally Posted by FFR

I just think the stereotypical Canadian response of "well they had a good showing for them" needs to change if we, as a nation, want to be competitive in sport. I think it's starting to change but I think we need to hold ourselves to a higher level - especially when a medal is in reach and mistakes affect the result (rather than the performance of others).

Not saying this is you specifically, Kelekin - just a general thought about how Canadians respond to result in sport.

My process is more logical. Sure, it would be fantastic if every Canadian won gold. But the average purveyor of the sport who shows up once every four years, and in general, I do not hear the sentiment of "well, good enough". What I am saying is that I am realistic and I watch world cup events of some of these sports, and so when I know a team rarely makes it to the podium, the odds are against them to make it to the podium. Furthermore to what you are saying, unlike in a lot of other countries, the average Canadian doesn't pay attention to what happens in those four years. No one is demanding of World Championship victories. How can one expect Olympians to medal if they do not expect them to be on the same pace during the rest of the time?

So for me, personally, I'd love to see us pump crazy amounts of money into sport and recreation and have world champions in everything. But I am someone who enjoys the sport regardless, and when I know a Canadian team is ranked 8th, I can go into the event going "well, if they do better than that, it's a huge improvement" and can also hope that they further improve in the World Cups to be competitive at the next Olympics.

[Mango]

Group 4 coming up shortly in ice dance. Tessa and Scott skate second.

[GirlySports]

Personal best are better than medals

For example if Virtue/Moir set a scoring record but get Silver that's ok.

[FFR]

Originally Posted by Kelekin

My process is more logical. Sure, it would be fantastic if every Canadian won gold. But the average purveyor of the sport who shows up once every four years, and in general, I do not hear the sentiment of "well, good enough". What I am saying is that I am realistic and I watch world cup events of some of these sports, and so when I know a team rarely makes it to the podium, the odds are against them to make it to the podium. Furthermore to what you are saying, unlike in a lot of other countries, the average Canadian doesn't pay attention to what happens in those four years. No one is demanding of World Championship victories. How can one expect Olympians to medal if they do not expect them to be on the same pace during the rest of the time?

So for me, personally, I'd love to see us pump crazy amounts of money into sport and recreation and have world champions in everything. But I am someone who enjoys the sport regardless, and when I know a Canadian team is ranked 8th, I can go into the event going "well, if they do better than that, it's a huge improvement" and can also hope that they further improve in the World Cups to be competitive at the next Olympics.

And I guess that's where we differ - you have, in my opinion, a very standard Canadian view of sports. It's not one that very successful nations share. I think it needs to change. Sure, the Olympics bring viewers who watch the sports only every four years - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't expect better results all the time. I don't think expecting better results is exclusive to the Olympics. It's just one of the few times these sports are televised for the average Canadian.

In any case - it doesn't really matter. They had a good event but should have been better in the final run. They had run better before so it's not like the fourth run was representative of the best they can do. I don't think it's unreasonable to want the best run every time. I know there are tons of factors in sport (any sport) that impact an athlete's performance but those are the things we need to work on.

[FFR]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Personal best are better than medals

For example if Virtue/Moir set a scoring record but get Silver that's ok.

And I guess that's where I would like to see opinions change. For so long Canada has been ok with personal bests and just being there. If we want to compete on the international stage at an elite level we have to demand more. From the fans, to the athletes, to the coaches, to the sporting federations.

We should want to win. It's just so... defeatist to say a personal best is better than a medal. I know I don't have a popular opinion in Canada. I just hope we can change it and get there. I think we saw the start of a huge shift with the results in Vancouver but I think we need to go further.

[Kelekin]

Originally Posted by FFR

And I guess that's where we differ - you have, in my opinion, a very standard Canadian view of sports. It's not one that very successful nations share. I think it needs to change. Sure, the Olympics bring viewers who watch the sports only every four years - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't expect better results all the time. I don't think expecting better results is exclusive to the Olympics. It's just one of the few times these sports are televised for the average Canadian.

In any case - it doesn't really matter. They had a good event but should have been better in the final run. They had run better before so it's not like the fourth run was representative of the best they can do. I don't think it's unreasonable to want the best run every time. I know there are tons of factors in sport (any sport) that impact an athlete's performance but those are the things we need to work on.

I don't understand how you saying 'expecting better results all the time' is somehow in conflict with what I said. I think the point is that I want them to be good -all the time-, not just the Olympics, where as most people do not care. These aren't conflicting arguments we are making. I am simply saying that my emotional response to a top 10 team not making a medal is more in check. I -expect- they can medal, I just understand statistical probability.

[FFR]

Originally Posted by Kelekin

I don't understand how you saying 'expecting better results all the time' is somehow in conflict with what I said. I think the point is that I want them to be good -all the time-, not just the Olympics, where as most people do not care. These aren't conflicting arguments we are making. I am simply saying that my emotional response to a top 10 team not making a medal is more in check. I -expect- they can medal, I just understand statistical probability.

Maybe I don't understand what your opinion is then. Because from here it seems like you are happy with their finish because it is what was expected. Whereas I am disappointed because they were in a position to win a medal and didn't due to errors in their performance (which they have shown they can run without).

I don't think we should be satisfied with a performance when it wasn't the athlete's best. Plus, rankings are great - but you will never improve in rankings if you don't surprise sometimes and win when you shouldn't. Being ok with finishing at your ranking level seems to be akin to being ok staying ranked Top 10 forever.

[FFR]

Back to today's events...Moir and Virtue are now skating live on TSN.

[formulate]

Originally Posted by FFR

And I guess that's where we differ - you have, in my opinion, a very standard Canadian view of sports. It's not one that very successful nations share. I think it needs to change. Sure, the Olympics bring viewers who watch the sports only every four years - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't expect better results all the time. I don't think expecting better results is exclusive to the Olympics. It's just one of the few times these sports are televised for the average Canadian.

In any case - it doesn't really matter. They had a good event but should have been better in the final run. They had run better before so it's not like the fourth run was representative of the best they can do. I don't think it's unreasonable to want the best run every time. I know there are tons of factors in sport (any sport) that impact an athlete's performance but those are the things we need to work on.

If becoming a 'successful' nation means pushing our athletes to the point where performing better than they ever have is still not good enough, I'd rather keep our 'Canadian' view of sports. Of course every athlete on team Canada wants to medal, it's just not realistic that most of them will. However, if the attitude is to push towards personal bests every time out, the results will start to come. Being disappointed in an athlete or team that has performed above their ranking, but perhaps misses out on gold due to a few mistakes, is not something I'm about to start doing. Would you be disappointed in the Swiss hockey team that 'lost' the World Championships this past year?