[Rumour] NHL and Seattle talking about expansion fees (~$225M)

[Igster]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

This is getting ridiculous. 32 teams.

Or we could just have 18 make the playoffs instead of just 16

[Jacks]

Anyone know how long it has taken in the past for a new team to actually join the league?

It's gotta take some time to build an entire organization from scouts, trainers, coaches, management to players. Plus there is all the infrastucture of equipment, vendors, advertising sponsors, etc. etc. etc.

[Jason14h]

2 more teams that will possibly fire their coach. 2 more fanbases that will be disgruntled that their team didn't make the playoffs, 2 more empty buildings, etc...

Yeah NFL and MLB have real problems with the fact over half their teams don't make the playoffs...

Maybe we should give participation medals next

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

I don't recall that for the NHL, but Ottawa picked 2nd overall (Yashin) in 1992 which was their first draft before their first season (1992-93) so it looks like there was a restriction.

Tampa Bay and Ottawa joined the same years. Tampa got 1st and Ottawa got 2nd. Tampa followed Buffalo, New York and Washington in getting the 1st overall as an expansion team that occurred in the 70s.

San Jose joined the league a year earlier and got 2nd overall (giving Quebec 1st overall Eric Lindros) but it wasn't as clean of an expansion because of the North Stars thing and San Jose and the league made a compromise to join the league a year earlier.

Florida and Anaheim joined in 1993 but were awarded the 4th and 5th picks in the draft. The other expansions teams in Ottawa, San Jose and Tampa picked the top 3. However, in 1994 Florida and Anaheim were guaranteed the top 2 picks. Florida picking 1st overall despite having 10 teams below them in the 1993-1994 standings.

Nashville was originally awarded the 2nd pick in 1998 behind Tampa Bay who finished last. However, Florida's pick won the lottery (San Jose had previously acquired it). So they dropped down to #3 before moving up to #2 in a trade. Also Tampa traded up to regain their number 1. 1998 was complicated.

Atlanta was given the 2nd pick in 1999 when they joined. Tampa, once again, finished last and was able to keep their pick. They decided to trade it to Vancouver when the rumour was spread the Sedins wouldn't play together. Atlanta and Vancouver then traded for number 1.

In 2000 Minnesota and Columbus joined the league and were given 2nd and 3rd overall picks while Atlanta got to keep their 1st overall. However, the Islanders would win the lottery pushing down those 3 teams and taking DiPietro 1st overall.

It's messy, seems like a bit of a precedent to give the 1st overall to a new team as long as they aren't taking it away from a recent expansion team.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

The NHL should invest in buying out 2 teams, and going back to 28. Reduce the number of games to 76-80, and end the season by the end of May.

Those would all be good for the game, and I would be glad to see them implemented.

Unfortunately, they would be also bad for "business", so will never happen.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Anyone know how long it has taken in the past for a new team to actually join the league?

It's gotta take some time to build an entire organization from scouts, trainers, coaches, management to players. Plus there is all the infrastucture of equipment, vendors, advertising sponsors, etc. etc. etc.

The Ducks and Panthers were awarded their teams in December 1992 and played their first seasons in the 1993-1994 season.

Just months after being created they were drafting. Maybe a bit of a special circumstance as they wanted to cash in on The Mighty Ducks movie franchise that came out in 1992. So in essence that could count as the sponsor part.

Other teams have taken longer. It was June 1997 that Atlanta, Nashville, Minnesota and Columbus were given the green light and they entered the leagues as they did complete their arenas and the like. Nashville joined in 1998 season, Atlanta 1999 and Columbus and Minnesota in 2000.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

I define a losing season as a year where you don't make the playoffs.

16 teams make the playoffs. Right now 14 miss. You add two more teams and you get 16 teams that will miss the playoffs. That is 2 more teams with "losing seasons".

2 more teams that will possibly fire their coach. 2 more fanbases that will be disgruntled that their team didn't make the playoffs, 2 more empty buildings, etc...

Is this about revenue or profit? Because you will add revenue to the NHL with 2 more teams, but overall league wide profit will come down.

The NHL should invest in buying out 2 teams, and going back to 28. Reduce the number of games to 76-80, and end the season by the end of May.

This is getting ridiculous. 32 teams.

I don't disagree with you one bit. However if they think they can increase revenue then they'll do it. They probably don't see the profit coming down like you do. I'm not going to try to even guess what this will do to the league economics apart from more revenue.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Yeah NFL and MLB have real problems with the fact over half their teams don't make the playoffs...

Maybe we should give participation medals next

MLB and NFL are popular in all 50 states and DC.

NHL not so much. Apples and oranges.

[Canada 02]

what will the expansion fee be? $500M

the average NHL franchise value last year was $413M

The Wild and the Blue Jackets entered the league in 2000 for $80M

[Beatle17]

The NHL should just play a balanced schedule and have the top 16 teams make the playoffs. 1 v16, 2 v 15, etc., and you could have the best playoffs. You could have classic finals, i.e. Boston v Montreal, like used to occur which helps create real rivalries.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Tampa Bay and Ottawa joined the same years. Tampa got 1st and Ottawa got 2nd. Tampa followed Buffalo, New York and Washington in getting the 1st overall as an expansion team that occurred in the 70s.

San Jose joined the league a year earlier and got 2nd overall (giving Quebec 1st overall Eric Lindros) but it wasn't as clean of an expansion because of the North Stars thing and San Jose and the league made a compromise to join the league a year earlier.

Florida and Anaheim joined in 1993 but were awarded the 4th and 5th picks in the draft. The other expansions teams in Ottawa, San Jose and Tampa picked the top 3.

Nashville was originally awarded the 2nd pick in 1998 behind Tampa Bay who finished last. However, Florida's pick won the lottery (San Jose had previously acquired it). So they dropped down to #3 before moving up to #2 in a trade. Also Tampa traded up to regain their number 1. 1998 was complicated.

Atlanta was given the 2nd pick in 1999 when they joined. Tampa, once again, finished last and was able to keep their pick. They decided to trade it to Vancouver when the rumour was spread the Sedins wouldn't play together. Atlanta and Vancouver then traded for number 1.

In 2000 Minnesota and Columbus joined the league and were given 2nd and 3rd overall picks while Atlanta got to keep their 1st overall. However, the Islanders would win the lottery pushing down those 3 teams and taking DiPietro 1st overall.

It's messy, seems like a bit of a precedent to give the 1st overall to a new team as long as they aren't taking it away from a recent expansion team.

I think that is what I'm remembering. They wouldn't give San Jose the 1st overall pick because an expansion team didn't work hard enough to get the 1st overall pick in a year where there was an exceptional player, like Lindros, available. They could have avoided the entire Lindros hates Quebec and double trade fiasco by just allowing San Jose to have the # 1 pick.

I think a good way would be to not allow them to participate in the draft until they have played one season. But how are they going to build? Well, I'm not going to figure out the details but they can loosen up some rules in the expansion draft to allow the team to get a more or better players. Don't let them pluck the superstars or top prospects from existing teams, but give them a better crack at players to help build the team around.

Probably not a plausible idea, but it is fair for teams who are already crappy and need the draft pick... and then the flipside to that is teams shouldn't be looking to be crappy to get a high draft pick...

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Just move Phoenix there and save the Glendale taxpayers the expense of propping up a failing franchise that has little to no chance of succeeding.

The NHL would never go for that so there is no point in even discussing it. The expansion fee is much higher than the relocation fee and if someone is willing to pay that why wouldn't the NHL take that extra ~$200 million? The Coyotes will never be a top earner in the league but if they continue their solid play, the new owners can probably turn it into a low-middle of the pack team in terms of revenue.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by getbak

They have the nicest and newest arena in North America without a major league tenant.

Until Quebec opens their new arena:



Nordic Labeaume "very confident" for 2015


http://translate.google.com/translat...aille-13022014

[Buff]

That arena looks open to me...

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

MLB and NFL are popular in all 50 states and DC.

NHL not so much. Apples and oranges.

NHL also has multiple teams in Canada, whereas the MLB and NFL do not.

Theoretically, the NHL should have the most teams out of all since they've fully tapped into the Canadian market, and have revenues increasing year by year, with room left to grow still in the states..

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Theoretically, the NHL should have the most teams out of all since they've fully tapped into the Canadian market, and have revenues increasing year by year, with room left to grow still in the states..

New franchises in Quebec, Toronto2, London/K-W and maybe Montreal2 would all be gold mines.

[Resolute 14]

The league has been floating expansion balloons since before the global economic downturn, and the conference alignment made it obvious that a 32-team NHL was in the offing.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by troutman

New franchises in Quebec, Toronto2, London/K-W and maybe Montreal2 would all be gold mines.

People keep stating this but there is no proof that it will increase NHL revenue margins any more than teams in Seattle, Portland, Phoenix uptick and Kansas City. If you (not you personally) say that Quebec will generate $100M in revenue per season that is marginally higher than Phoenix, who according to Forbes, generated $67M. The increase of $33M is not worth losing out on the potential market growth.

Second teams in Toronto/Montreal etc., can generate revenue but will also detract revenue from the current teams.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by troutman

Until Quebec opens their new arena:



Nordic Labeaume "very confident" for 2015


http://translate.google.com/translat...aille-13022014

They should try and fit an outdoor game in there while they still can!

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

People keep stating this but there is no proof that it will increase NHL revenue margins any more than teams in Seattle, Portland, Phoenix uptick and Kansas City. If you (not you personally) say that Quebec will generate $100M in revenue per season that is marginally higher than Phoenix, who according to Forbes, generated $67M. The increase of $33M is not worth losing out on the potential market growth.

Second teams in Toronto/Montreal etc., can generate revenue but will also detract revenue from the current teams.

50% higher is "marginally" higher?