LBJ already is a top 4 if we don't count rings. If we do then Derek Fisher should be on the list as well.
He is about the same size of Bird and Magic but he is 10 times more athletic than Bird and Magic combined. I never seen Oscar played but I doubt Oscar is more athletic than LBJ. Wilt and Kareem are from an earlier era so while they do dominate their respective era, watching their archive films are like watching plays in slow motion nowadays.
It's always hard to compare players from different era but if you have to pick one player to start your team, I will pick MJ ahead of LBJ. Then maybe Wilt or Kareem but honestly, I never seen Wilt play and I've only seen Kareem in his worse years play so I"ll have a hard time picking Wilt and Kareem.
No way I'll pick Bird, Magic or Oscar ahead of LBJ. So at worse, LBJ is the 4th best by my book.
Last edited by darklord700; 02-13-2014 at 11:23 AM.
LBJ already is a top 4 if we don't count rings. If we do then Derek Fisher should be on the list as well.
He is about the same size of Bird and Magic but he is 10 times more athletic than Bird and Magic combined. I never seen Oscar played but I doubt Oscar is more athletic than LBJ. Wilt and Kareem are from an earlier era so while they do dominate their respective era, watching their archive films are like watching plays in slow motion nowadays.
It's always hard to compare players from different era but if you have to pick one player to start your team, I will pick MJ ahead of LBJ. Then maybe Wilt or Kareem but honestly, I never seen Wilt played and I've only seen a Kareem in his worse year played so I"ll have a hard time picking Wilt and Kareem.
No way I'll pick Bird, Magic or Oscar ahead of LBJ. So at worse, LBJ is the 4th best by my book.
This is the sort of hyperbole that ruins these sorts of arguments. What's that mean? That he can run the court 10 times faster then a mutant hybrid of those two guys? That his vertical is 10 times higher than the combined vertical of those two? Don't get me wrong, I think he's the best NBA athlete of his generation and arguably the best NBA athlete of all-time, but even so athleticism is only a portion of what makes a great NBA player. Some of the worst players in the league have excellent athleticism. Ultimately a player's legacy will be about stats, championships, awards, iconic performances, and not athletic abilities.
That he can run the court 10 times faster then a mutant hybrid of those two guys?
It's just an exaggeration. Bird might be a better 3 pt shooter and Magic might be a better passer but LBJ can pretty much do all those and then some. Bird was the one who led me start watching BBall but watching his film clips nowadays are like watching plays in slow mo.
It's hard to compare athletes from different era and nostalgia often contributes to the discussion. Do anyone really think that Bird is better than Durant or LBJ?
Robertson did average a triple double in a season and Magic came within 0.5 assists and 0.5 rebounds from doing it too. LeBron hasn't come within 2 assists or rebounds of doing it. They are more complete players. Bird is the most lethal shooter ever, and I seriously, seriously doubt that in game 7 of the Finals a coach would dare Bird to beat them with his jump shot unless they wanted Larry to drop 75 points on them. That just happened to LeBron.
LeBron's physicality is also a bit overstated because LeBron also plays in the least physical era of NBA basketball by a mile. Would he be as great in the 90's or 80's? I don't think so. Imagine LeBron going up against the Bad Boys Pistons. He'd have to flop even harder than normal to get calls. LeBron is great and will probably end up in the top 10, but thats it. Top 5 is pretty much uncrackable.
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The best don't need to say they're the best, they go out and prove it. LeBron seems to bring it up every couple months. Can't say I entirely blame him since it's always a point of debate, but you rarely hear something like this from Kobe (who is still the better player all-time today). James still needs 2-3 more titles to be considered that far up there. Physically he might be the the optimal player, but I wouldn't consider him the most dominant quite yet either.
I agreed that LBJ needed to keep his mouth shut for a while. He doesn't need to remind people he can win the slam dunk contest or being a top 4 ever.
That asides, it's hard to get form an objective consensus past the top 10. Once it gets to top 5, it's personal and subjective. And nostalgia tends to make earlier players look better.
I have never seen Wilt, Russell, Oscar play and I barely saw the best of Magic and Bird. The younger generation probably haven't even see much of Magic and Bird and just a little bit of MJ.
I do believe the athletes of today are better than the athletes of yesterday.
^If he got that down his first try then it would've been dunk of the night. What a crappy allstar Saturday. The NBA may seriously have to consider mandatory dunk contest contestants next year (Lebron, Durant, Griffin, ect.) because what they gave us was ####.
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Pretty much every dunk that can be done, has been done. I was watching it and it was pretty pathetic - not necessarily the quality of dunks, but the number of tries it takes before they finally do it. What was amazing about Vince Carters' year was Carter surprised everyone with never before seen stuff, but he did it more or less on first try. These guys aren't surprising anyone after landing it on the 4th try, and even worse, in recent years have had to resort to gimmicks with props and blatant product placement. Pathetic.
36 Dunks that haven't been done in the dunk contest.
I want to believe that half of these could be done by NBA players with a little bit of practice. You just need to make the dunk contest championship worth something that these players want.
I also think you go back to the 6 dunkers/3 dunks 1st Round, 3 dunker/2 dunk Final round. I wanted to see John Wall, Paul George and McLemore (rumored to have a 720 dunk ready for last night) all go for at least another dunk.
The dunk contest was mah and the 3pt contest as well. I would scrape the all star weekend and just give the players a week off to recharge. The All Star Game was worth watching before as it was the only time you can see stars from small teams like GSW play. But now almost every game is broadcasted and every dunk is highlighted so what's the point of having these no contact non competitive all star games.
Of course, it'll never be cancelled because of financial reasons.
Philly gave away a supposingly promising player for free. One has to wonder why or if there's something Philly know that the Pacers don't. A reasonable GM just don't give away a former no. 2 pick and a 17 pt scorer for Granger.
Robertson did average a triple double in a season and Magic came within 0.5 assists and 0.5 rebounds from doing it too. LeBron hasn't come within 2 assists or rebounds of doing it. They are more complete players. Bird is the most lethal shooter ever, and I seriously, seriously doubt that in game 7 of the Finals a coach would dare Bird to beat them with his jump shot unless they wanted Larry to drop 75 points on them. That just happened to LeBron.
LeBron's physicality is also a bit overstated because LeBron also plays in the least physical era of NBA basketball by a mile. Would he be as great in the 90's or 80's? I don't think so. Imagine LeBron going up against the Bad Boys Pistons. He'd have to flop even harder than normal to get calls. LeBron is great and will probably end up in the top 10, but thats it. Top 5 is pretty much uncrackable.
LOL
Can you seriously imagine that? Bill Laimbeer, my favorite NBA player of all time, laid out his team's best player Isiah Thomas so hard Thomas missed a couple weeks with bruised ribs because Thomas was dragging his butt in practice. Thomas himself was hard as nails.
Lebron - or even better fake tough guy Chris Bosh - trying a flop against the Pistons in that era would have been a blood bath. Laimbeer would have put an elbow in Lebron's teeth within the first 2 minutes of a playoff series, but I think they would have toyed with Bosh, the way a group of killer whales toys with a young seal. They had every intention of targeting the opposing teams best players.
To put it in perspective for those who don't recall or were too young, the Pistons' heyday was in the early 90s and transitioned the league from the Celtics/Lakers era to the Bulls era. Chuck Daly was their coach. He ended up coaching the first dream team. I recall a survey during their heyday of the dirtiest players in the league. The Pistons had three in the top ten (Laimbeer, Thomas, Mahorn) and then #8 was the answer "The entire Detroit Piston Team". The Pistons group of players were so skilled and miserable that some gravely young scrub named Rodman was an afterthought when you considered rough and tumble play. Basketball was legitimately physical then and these guys ruled the roost.
Check out their treatment of Scottie Pippen, at about the 3:50 mark. Rodman is learning his lessons well:
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