Conservative bill gives Harper power to strip Canadians of Citizenship.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

I think you'd have a pretty solid lawsuit against the government if you were born in Canada, had never set foot in the other country you were a citizen of and they were trying to boot you out.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...portation.html

He's being sent back to India and doesn't even speak the language. Born and raised in Canada.

[MoneyGuy]

Mr. Harper, please strip of his citizenship one Mayor Rob Ford. Justin Beiber also, while you're at it.

-signed, all of Canada

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

I'm fairly certain it is the same. A buddy of mine has his British citizenship because his dad is from there. I think he just had to send in his fathers birth certificate, his birth certificate and his parents marriage certificate. I think once you get it you can pass it to your children as well. Definitely a nice perk to pass onto your kids, opens a lot of doors.

It can also be a big hindrance. To make a long story short, I have recently found out (to my surprise) that I am considered an American by the U.S. government. If I go to the U.S. I could be charged with not submitting my tax returns for the last 7 years (well, actually I have never submitted my taxes there). I have never earned a cent in the U.S., and have not set foot in the country for 26 years (and only for about 6 hours, I haven't been in the country more than 6 hours for over 32 years). To remedy this, I would need to submit my taxes for the last 7 years. Cost estimates that I have heard for this is $1000 to $5000 for each years tax return. To renounce my U.S. citizenship I would still have to submit my taxes for the last 7 years.

Be very careful about what you wish for. I am now restricted from entering the country (or flying on an plane that lands in the states). And now I find out that I can have my citizenship revoked by the Canadian government. Dual citizenship isn't always such a wonderful thing to have.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Doodlebug

What would happen if say the Egyptians refused to take him in? I realize his father was born there, so he might be eligible for Egyptian citizenship, but unless he currently has it, maybe they refuse to grant it.

One of the articles I read said that every child born of an Egyptian father is automatically considered by Egypt to be a citizen.

Looking at the timeline of his life, it looks like he barely ever lived in Canada and that his parents were simply citizens of convenience (they used Canada to raise money to finance their affairs overseas).

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/20...hronology.html

Should there be more to being a citizen than just being pushed out on Canadian soil?

[puckluck2]

So should Middle East countries start deporting their citizens who have been convicted of a serious crime if they have a Canadian citizenship as well? You were born in Syria, commited a terrorist attack, but since you're also a Canadian citizen off to Canada you go! Harper will even meet him with a white cowboy hat at the airport.

[Clarkey]

I'm ok with this. Terrorist? Kick him outta the commonwealth!

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

I'm ok with this. Terrorist? Kick him outta the commonwealth!

Without due process?

The issue I have is that one person can make this decision. No hearing, no analysis, no balancing aggravating and mitigating factors.

If the Conservatives want to be able to revoke citizenship for those convicted of terrorism and recieve a sentence of 5 years or more, then revocation of citizenship should be part of the sentence imposed by the judge not the Prime Minister.

[Rerun]

If you were born in Canada, the government, or courts, or whoever, shouldn't have the ability to revoke your citizenship. However, if you weren't..... that could be a different story. Receiving your Canadian citizenship is a privilege, not a right and privileges should be able to be withdrawn.

That said, I would feel a lot more comfortable with this if the government had to prove its case in court, before someone's citizenship could be revoked.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Well seeing how Khadr was tortured until he confessed, and at most he would have been a child solider; if we're going to reject his citizenship then all you need is a conviction regardless of the circumstances.

I agree with the points on the Khadr case. I was using it to reinforce the notion that such a revoking of citizenship would be toxic for any party that dares even raise the concept unless there's an incredibly compelling reason to do so. This brings up the concept that Canada and the public opinion ultimately holds all the cards in how to handle it. If the government, which could only ram through marginal cases through the House of Commons as a majority, decides to strip citizenship to anybody but the most heinous of cases (in public eye, mind you...they are not always a fair judge), they'll be killed next election. And no party I know of wants to tank their chances of winning the next election, so it seems unlikely they'd do something unless there's public outcry to make it happen.

This does leave upon the possibility of mob mentality, where the government is forced to act against logical decision making because the public, knowing this arm of the law would be demanding someone get stripped and the government bending over to make it happen.

Again, this is just me kind of playing out situations where this law could be applied without widespread condemnation internationally and within Canada. Khadr's case, one of the biggest cases in ages, within Canada would cause a massive divide and, for a government like Harper's, would likely topple it come next election. Again, it feels like toxic waste for a party to handle. I can't see the country being too happy with doing that. So to me it seems unlikely this law, while in theory giving the House a weapon I might not be comfortable with, will do much at the practical level.

Much like Rerun says above, I would prefer this come with judicial oversight to ensure that the government's case holds legally to prevent abuse by majority governments. If cases needed to be proven in Canadian court as well, it feels much safer as a policy for handling such cases.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I have never heard of that. Do you mind telling what country that is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis

Jus sanguinis (Latin: right of blood) is a principle of nationality law by which citizenship is not determined by place of birth but by having one or both parents who are citizens of the state. Children at birth may automatically be citizens if their parents have state citizenship or national identities of ethnic, cultural or other origins.

I think most European countries use it.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Rerun

If you were born in Canada, the government, or courts, or whoever, shouldn't have the ability to revoke your citizenship. However, if you weren't..... that could be a different story. Receiving your Canadian citizenship is a privilege, not a right and privileges should be able to be withdrawn.

That said, I would feel a lot more comfortable with this if the government had to prove its case in court, before someone's citizenship could be revoked.

Citizenship is an interesting thing. For example, why should it be a right for someone who is born here while his or her mother is on a layover at Pearson, but a privilege for someone that spends years and thousands of dollars trying to immigrate?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...portation.html

He's being sent back to India and doesn't even speak the language. Born and raised in Canada.

English is an official language of India. I have met people from India who grew up speaking it as their first language in fact. The whole loophole regarding his citizenship is garbage though.. After being born in Canada and staying until adulthood, there should be no question that he is ours now.

Originally Posted by Makarov

Citizenship is an interesting thing. For example, why should it be a right for someone who is born here while his or her mother is on a layover at Pearson, but a privilege for someone that spends years and thousands of dollars trying to immigrate?

The whole birthright for citizenship doesn't make sense under every circumstance. It's an outdated notion that can be traced back to times when in general people didn't (and couldn't) travel and cross borders like they do today. Being a citizen by birth was a lot more essential than it is now. I personally don't see why there shouldn't be different status for children born of parents who have been in Canada for less than a few years and could easily just move away again. And I am speaking as someone who would have been affected directly by such a system.

With Khadr, he was born in Canada and stayed for less than a year before the family left the country. Between the age of 0 and when he was caught fighting in Afghanistan (just shy of 16), he probably spent less than 12 months of his life in Canada including trips.

It is bizarre when, like you said, you consider people who want to move here and dedicate themselves to building a life here, but have to jump through hoops to become a citizen. Then there are people who come here and use the country as a jumping off point with no intention of staying or raising a family here, but because they plop out a baby in the meantime, that child is an automatic citizen.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Citizenship is an interesting thing. For example, why should it be a right for someone who is born here while his or her mother is on a layover at Pearson, but a privilege for someone that spends years and thousands of dollars trying to immigrate?

I am not sure how likely some of these scenarios are. While I am not sure about land crossings, I doubt a woman who is than close to giving birth would be allowed to fly. I don't even know why somebody would come here to give birth. They're likely to get billed for their hospital visit here, and I don't think it's cheap.

[FanningTheFlames]

Canada is stock full of ####ty immigrants, so if the government decided to renounce and deport said immigrants I would have no problem with that. Maybe they should investigate their relatives too.

Btw, I have a wife whom I married overseas, and we can't even get her a visa to visit Canada and meet my mom. I am a true and natural born Canadian and somehow my word is not enough. Thank you, ####ing liars.

It's time to clean up Trudeau and the ####ing ridiculous 60s.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by FanningTheFlames

Canada is stock full of ####ty immigrants, so if the government decided to renounce and deport said immigrants I would have no problem with that. Maybe they should investigate their relatives too.

I would actually argue that there are more entitled, "####ty" Canadians here than "####ty" immigrants.

[FanningTheFlames]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I would actually argue that there are more entitled, "####ty" Canadians here than "####ty" immigrants.

Well, you can go #### yourself if you think that.

[FanningTheFlames]

Let me rephrase, yes there are a lot ####ty Canadians

[Maritime Q-Scout]

The issue isn't the amount of immigrants and who should/shouldn't be here.

The issue is one person having the ability to be able to revoke citizenship without due process.

Remember this isn't for people trying to become Canadians this bill applies to Canadian citizens.

[FanningTheFlames]

and especially entitled, but in no way should you expect to not being able to bring a spouse home to meet your family.

In Canada, that might take years or decades to do. I'm now on year three.

So, yes I blame the liberal immigration and the backlog it caused.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FanningTheFlames

Canada is stock full of ####ty immigrants, so if the government decided to renounce and deport said immigrants I would have no problem with that. Maybe they should investigate their relatives too.

Btw, I have a wife whom I married overseas, and we can't even get her a visa to visit Canada and meet my mom. I am a true and natural born Canadian and somehow my word is not enough. Thank you, ####ing liars.

It's time to clean up Trudeau and the ####ing ridiculous 60s.

I am an immigrant. I have never been on EI, served 7 years in the army, and never commited a crime (in Canada).

Am I ####ty?


PS: what have you done to make the country a better place?