Another vehicle goes over the median on Glenmore and kills a person - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

4X4 · 02-09-2014, 02:00 PM

Make the walls 10' tall and get rid of rubberneckers while we're at it! It'll be like driving around in East Berlin!

ken0042 · 02-09-2014, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Personal safety is a personal responsibility which is why I want the median up. The people who were killed were not in control of their personal safety in any way, shape, or form.

I was really meaning more along the lines of speed. In both crashes police have mentioned speed being factors. Before we spend who know how much money making it safer, people need to drive for the conditions.

One thing that might be a better idea is adaptive speed limits. I saw that on the I5 in Seattle, and the signs change based on traffic levels and road conditions. Add in speed cameras, and you likely have a solution there that is revenue neutral or even positive.

Coys1882 · 02-09-2014, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puckluck2

I'm sure you'd have that same attitude if it was your grandma or kid who was killed because the stupid actions of another driver and a median not being built high enough.

I would love to meet you in real life - I'm really curious as to what you're like in person.

Calgary14 · 02-09-2014, 04:19 PM

I drove for a couple hours yesterday and saw five cars in the ditch. One was on its side. Two had drivers still in them. They were fine they just were driving too fast and slid off the road. Very icy and its even worse because it doesn't look icy.

zamler · 02-09-2014, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnski

There was no snow, or ice... the roads were bare and dry.

Start of the year I saw a 5 car pile up, beautiful day the roads were perfectly dry. The same day I saw a horrific accident involving two cars, not even at an intersection it looked like the one SUV jumped the median and hit the other car head on.

Point is you can't engineer out human stupidity and carelessness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4X4

Make the walls 10' tall and get rid of rubberneckers while we're at it! It'll be like driving around in East Berlin!

Make the walls 20 feet high and everything out of rubber! Wait never mind people will still find a way to get into needless and fatal accidents.

Yasa · 02-09-2014, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puckluck2

I'm no EMS expert but I've never seen an ambulance stop on the opposite side of the median. And even so I don't think it's fair to have a big design flaw for that reason.

While it's not ideal, we will park on the opposite side. There are lots of roads where turning around can't be done quickly. Often times, we'll have practitioners hop out to assess the situation, and determine if the ambulance needs to move. In a serious situation, another ambulance will be dispatched to assist, while the first crew treats and packages the patient.

I'm not saying this should totally deny the idea of taller medians, but we will try and use the shortest route to a patient if we can.

puckluck2 · 02-09-2014, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coys1882

I would love to meet you in real life - I'm really curious as to what you're like in person.

Why? I've met over twenty people off of CP and have some new lifetime friends from this site so I'm not a dbag like you're applying but when you make ridiculous comments like you did then expect ridiculous replies. I guess making wide sweeping generalizations about truck guys makes you a great person in real life. But I'm the dbag for wanting to save some lives.

Coys1882 · 02-09-2014, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Why? I've met over twenty people off of CP and have some new lifetime friends from this site so I'm not a dbag like you're applying but when you make ridiculous comments like you did then expect ridiculous replies. I guess making wide sweeping generalizations about truck guys makes you a great person in real life. But I'm the dbag for wanting to save some lives.

Yes. I've formed an opinion on you based off this one thread.

chemgear · 02-09-2014, 08:25 PM

I always wince when people are so quick to claim innocence and fight speeding tickets, dismiss them as just "cash grabs" or "unfair tactics". But then when that same speeding problem is an obvious major factor in death, accidents and train crashes - people want even more safety walls or barriers or bigger signs or magic unicorns so they can keep right on speeding (or breaking the law and common sense).

Not trying to call anybody out here and I do realize that the group of the former is not necessarily the same group of the latter (venn diagram and all). But there doesn't seem much shame or acknowledgment of wrong doing with speeding from most people these days - just frustration that they were caught in a "game" versus cameras or the police.

Just my personal experience and not necessarily a reflection of the forum (thread or individuals).

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...714/story.html

On Saturday, a 63-year-old woman was killed and three others seriously injured in a two-vehicle collision. A Ford pickup truck heading west on Glenmore Trail lost control, crossed the median and slammed into a Honda Accord in the eastbound lane.

The collision wasn’t far from the scene of another crash in December, when a pickup truck travelling eastbound on Glenmore crossed the median and was hit by a westbound tractor trailer, killing 18-month-old Travis Bertrand.

Police have said poor road conditions and excessive speed were factors in both incidents.

CaramonLS · 02-09-2014, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chemgear

I always wince when people are so quick to claim innocence and fight speeding tickets, dismiss them as just "cash grabs" or "unfair tactics". But then when that same speeding problem is an obvious major factor in death, accidents and train crashes - people want even more safety walls or barriers or bigger signs or magic unicorns so they can keep right on speeding (or breaking the law and common sense).

Not to get too far off topic here, but most people refer to photo radar as a cash grab - because it is, I don't hear a ton of people whining about speeding tickets though.

There are no consequences until 3 weeks after and it does very little to reduce speed.

zamler · 02-09-2014, 10:05 PM

Photo radar does little or nothing to change your diving habits. The only thing that will is driver training and strong incentives to drive safely. The unfortunate thing about auto accidents is all we see reported is the carnage. We learn nothing about how the accident happened and how we can learn from the mistakes made.

Kerplunk · 02-09-2014, 11:01 PM

It would be interesting to simulate what the outcome would be with higher barriers. Given the amount of energy involved in some of these accidents, it is possible that all a higher barrier would do is change the side of the road that the carnage occurs on. Finding ways of keeping the speed down during crappy road conditions is probably a better long term solution...

T@T · 02-09-2014, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerplunk

It would be interesting to simulate what the outcome would be with higher barriers. Given the amount of energy involved in some of these accidents, it is possible that all a higher barrier would do is change the side of the road that the carnage occurs on. Finding ways of keeping the speed down during crappy road conditions is probably a better long term solution...

Were talking mostly fender benders when vehicals are going the same direction.

Kerplunk · 02-10-2014, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T@T

Were talking mostly fender benders when vehicals are going the same direction.

Really? Show me with conditions present in this collision.

Dan02 · 02-10-2014, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puckluck2

So give me one good reason in your opinion why the medians shouldn't be higher. Just one. One is all I ask for and it can not be money. Go ahead.

Why can't it be money?? funds are finite and spending additional money in this area might mean that needed safety measures in other areas might not be able to be funded. Or were you volunteering to pay for it.

CaramonLS · 02-10-2014, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fotze

Well since speed has been determined as a factor I bet the traffic engineers are thankful they have no follow up work to do on this.

Isn't speed a factor in every crash? Never seen two cars not moving crash into each other.

Yeah they certainly are funny with their wording. The first article says 'excessive speed for the road conditions' whatever that means. The 2nd one just says speed was a factor in both crashes.

Superflyer · 02-10-2014, 08:15 AM

I'm just curious how tall you want them to be. After a while you have to take into considerations such as wind. When there is a strong wind, which is very possible on open areas such as a road you need the stability built into the wall to withstand it. Also it cannot move at all when the wind is blowing against it. To build in this stability it will need a good strong base which will more than likely be wider than it is now. Also it will need strong beams sunk into the ground as well. To get that extra width the road will have to be wider to make up for it.
Also while these new tall medians are being built on every major roadway this will cause major roadwork which I'm sure nobody will complain about because it will stop people from flying over them and we are thinking of the children.

Flabbibulin · 02-10-2014, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerplunk

It would be interesting to simulate what the outcome would be with higher barriers. Given the amount of energy involved in some of these accidents, it is possible that all a higher barrier would do is change the side of the road that the carnage occurs on. Finding ways of keeping the speed down during crappy road conditions is probably a better long term solution...

You really think there is some measure out there, from an educational or law enforcement standpoint, that will decrease the number of speeders? Highway speeding, regardless of the conditions, is a universal issue and will absolutely never go away. I can't say for sure, but I doubt there is a city or region out there that has found the magic formula for eliminating the problem. You can't legislate away stupidity. If a higher median makes the road safer, then do it.

Regardless of their skills behind the wheel or stupid decisions in poor conditions, bad drivers don't deserve to be hurt or killed in car accidents... and the people they take with them certainly don't either.

Northendzone · 02-10-2014, 08:23 AM

i would note that the posted speed limit on glenmore is 80; however, based on what i have observed most people drive that stretch at around 100.......that being said, the gaurd rails do look low relative to the concrete barriers that are found on Deerfoot.

Resolute 14 · 02-10-2014, 08:29 AM

Driving by the scene this morning, it is clear that piled snow likely played a role in this crash as well. The height of the barrier was probably fine in both instances, except for the fact that piled snow allows for vehicles to ramp up a significant part of that height.

While there is no harm in looking at raising the height, the immediate prudent fix would be to both clear the snow and ice - which at this point means a city crew with jackhammers - and to change the city's snow clearing policy to ensure that snowbanks are not allowed to accumulate in sections like this part of Glenmore.