Baby Boomers didnt left the economy in better shape

[Red]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Maybe I'm confused, but I didn't realize starvation was such a big deal for the boomers in the the 60's and 70's and 80's...... I thought that was a great depression thing.

In fact, I thought the issue in the 80's was sky high mortgage rates for home owners...... but I guess none of them owned homes so that can't be true!

\

And you will be till you hit your 40s.

This isn't about starvation, it's about priorities. They had them right, Y-ers only care about money. Cost of this, cost of that, better jobs....blah blah blah. Cry me a river. Or better yet, go earn your luxuries.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Maybe I'm confused, but I didn't realize starvation was such a big deal for the boomers in the the 60's and 70's and 80's...... I thought that was a great depression thing.

In fact, I thought the issue in the 80's was sky high mortgage rates for home owners...... but I guess none of them owned homes so that can't be true!

Phan...you are coming across as an ass...even if you believe you are making a point. If that is being a credit to your generation thats too bad. You need to learn how to have a discussion without coming across as arrogant as you seem to be.

[Mr.Coffee]

This is such a terrible debate. I can't believe I read all of it, jesus.

Nothing's worse than ridiculous wide-sweeping stereotypes targeting gigantic swaths of people based on age. I hate demographic debates. And I have to chime in because of how time-wasting it is. It's not all that different than debating about any other stereotype and they don't ring true for any one particular person. That is because shockingly no one person is the same. You probably learned that after your first birthday or so. If you don't know that yet, you've got much bigger problems than sitting around struggling to know how to treat demographics of people spanning 20 years of birth history. Age debates are largely a waste of time, particularly in this setting and just a bunch of people getting defensive about... something that they don't completely understand other than their own pre-conceived biases and determinations. Making lazy and bizarre statements about what the "truth is".

It's not like there are a billion factors that go into an entire generation that are the cause of any such stereotypes. It's not like these factors are even controlled by any of the groups and it's not like these stereotypes fit everybody exactly.

It's like when my work does that stupid ####ing colours thing. Oh you're a BLUE... I have to talk to you using numbers as symbols to communicate! Thanks HR. More like I'll tell Bob exactly what I need from him and not treat him like I've psychoanalyzed a pre-determined motivation to get him to do what I need to satisfy my exclusive interests. Not to mention if I treated Bob like that he'd tell me to #### off or worse never talk to me again and I wouldn't blame him.

Like honestly how completely idiotic does it sound when you state that an ENTIRE generation is harder working than another? Extremely. I can tell you that based on what I see... that you can't differentiate which is what's being done in this thread like it's gospel for any which side of the lame ass debate.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Red

\

And you will be till you hit your 40s.

This isn't about starvation, it's about priorities. They had them right, Y-ers only care about money. Cost of this, cost of that, better jobs....blah blah blah. Cry me a river. Or better yet, go earn your luxuries.

I thought the issue was Gen Y and opportunities (not money)..... and your beef is that you want to retire and don't want to work any more because you lost money in the stock market? Isn't that the point of this thread?

[Red]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I thought the issue was Gen Y and opportunities (not money)..... and your beef is that you want to retire and don't want to work any more because you lost money in the stock market? Isn't that the point of this thread?

ah. NVM.

[nik-]

Did I just see someone defending the Baby Boomer generation using "Generation Y'ers only care about money" as an argument?

[Red]

Originally Posted by nik-

Did I just see someone defending the Baby Boomer generation using "Generation Y'ers only care about money" as an argument?

Everything you guys brought up came down to money. School costs, housing etc. You are not exactly blaming the X-ers or Boomers for the terrible processed foods they invented. Now, that's something I can bitch about along with any Y-er, but sadly this thread disappoints in that aspect.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by fotze

I totally can't see any of these stereotypes in any of the many hundreds of people I have worked with in the past 18 years after Uni. I see the odd one, but never anything I could even come close to attributing to a bigger group. Maybe the older guys are not as good at computers. Maybe people fresh out of school think they are all that, but that always goes away, but for the most part there are some losers, some winners and they are spread throughout all age groups.

I can however say that the one group I can attribute a stereotype was working for the gov't for many years, absolutely more sad, depressed people, lots of times grossly under qualified where glad-handing and power words got you to the top. I am also shocked at how many of them have died since I left. A truly cancerous atmosphere.

I remember talking to you about that government gig...seems like yesterday...crazy.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Phan...you are coming across as an ass...even if you believe you are making a point. If that is being a credit to your generation thats too bad. You need to learn how to have a discussion without coming across as arrogant as you seem to be.

You obviously missed the sarcasm in his response. Red was doing much the same but somehow gets a pass from you. Fact is both sides could have made thier points without the insults or sarcasm.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Where did you get that number from? According to Statscan, only 25% of Canadians aged 25-64 have a university degree (2007 data). Source: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quoti...0908b1-eng.htm

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/09/27/...ed-country-is/

Originally Posted by MarchHare

But how much did a typical starter home cost back then? And how have housing prices compared to the rate of inflation over the last 30 years?

Some things you fail to understand, based on this comment, are that the idea of a starter home, how many people can afford one, at what age, and most importantly the size and quality of a starter home, have all changed substantially.

In the 70s, buying a home was still a luxury - a dream to aspire to. It was rare for people in their 20s.

And it was usually rare until a family had children - in other words, the average occupancy per household was higher.

Finally, the typical home was much smaller. A 2,000 sf home was very large - upper middle class only - even into the 80s.

Now, it is far more common for 20-somethings - alone or couples, without kids - to purchase homes substantially larger than 2,000 sf, just for themselves.

And let's not even talk about what's inside the home, like dishwashers, granite countertops etc, which simply were not affordable a generation ago (my first house had 2 appliances - a fridge and a stove).

So when you say a home costs more, first you have to understand what you are talking about - you are getting substantially more.

It's the same with cars. In the 70s and 80s, a young person was proud to own a 10 or 15 year old beater than leaked oil.

Today, buying a car means new or virtually new. It means 10 air bags, heated seats, navigation, tires that virtually never go flat, etc

You can't compare prices when the product is incomparable.

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by Dion

You obviously missed the sarcasm in his response. Red was doing much the same but somehow gets a pass from you. Fact is both sides could have made thier points without the insults or sarcasm.

My pet peave is that there is so much sarcasm in posts. Useless drivel.

[Enoch Root]

To those arguing that 2008 was the worst economic shock since the depression, that is true - from the point of view of the stock markets and the amount of wealth that was destroyed.

However, in terms of unemployment (the metric that should matter the most to young people) it actually wasn't even close to prior recessions. In the early 80s, Canadian unemployment hit about 13%. In the early 90s, it hit 12%. In 09, it didn't reach 9%.

(And yes, in those prior recessions, unemployment hit youth the hardest then too - if I remember correctly, youth unemployment was well over 20% in 84)

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

To those arguing that 2008 was the worst economic shock since the depression, that is true - from the point of view of the stock markets and the amount of wealth that was destroyed.

However, in terms of unemployment (the metric that should matter the most to young people) it actually wasn't even close to prior recessions. In the early 80s, Canadian unemployment hit about 13%. In the early 90s, it hit 12%. In 09, it didn't reach 9%.

(And yes, in those prior recessions, unemployment hit youth the hardest then too - if I remember correctly, youth unemployment was well over 20% in 84)

So are you then agreeing that economics leading up to today ("Baby Boomers" though that generalization places blame on a large majority of people that aren't even responsible) and the development of a debt-based economy with lobbying/corruption leaving the economy in a bad shape then?

I'm not really here to argue if 2008 is worse then the 80's .... I'm sure the 80's was bad .... but don't think for a second that the only worry for generation Y, Z, AA, et al is cell phones and fancy cars. And its not just 2008 either, I agree. A lot of people got hurt by the financial infrastructure.... and it doesn't just happen to any one generation. Don't get me wrong, I don't think 2008 was some sort of isolation or anything.... 2008 faces challenges, 80's they faced challenges, and in 201X? they will face the challenges as well.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It's the same with cars. In the 70s and 80s, a young person was proud to own a 10 or 15 year old beater than leaked oil.

Today, buying a car means new or virtually new. It means 10 air bags, heated seats, navigation, tires that virtually never go flat, etc

You can't compare prices when the product is incomparable.

Hey!! Mine never leaked oil and we were able to work on our vehicles unlike the ones today with all the computer chips and sensors. It cost us less to keep our vehicle tuned as we didn't have to take it to a garage to pay to find out what expensive sensor needed to be replaced. My 78 Grand Pix SJ and it's 4 barrel carb was a better built vehicle than the one vehicle I drive today

[habernac]

I'd rather have todays vehicles with a fraction of the emissions of the gas guzzling 70's vehicles even if they cost more to get repaired.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

So are you then agreeing that economics leading up to today ("Baby Boomers" though that generalization places blame on a large majority of people that aren't even responsible) and the development of a debt-based economy with lobbying/corruption leaving the economy in a bad shape then?

I'm not really here to argue if 2008 is worse then the 80's .... I'm sure the 80's was bad .... but don't think for a second that the only worry for generation Y, Z, AA, et al is cell phones and fancy cars. And its not just 2008 either, I agree. A lot of people got hurt by the financial infrastructure.... and it doesn't just happen to any one generation. Don't gg, I don't think 2008 was some sort of isolation or anything.... 2008 faces challenges, 80's they faced challenges, and in 201X? they will face the challenges as well.

What I have been arguing all along is that there have always been problems and there will always be problems. My point is that it isn't harder today than before - every generation has faced and will face challenges. However, the ongoing backdrop to that is that society continues to improve and move forward.

[Red Slinger]

The personality of a generation is a direct result of the events and situations that shaped the people of that generation. It's not like the boomers all got together and said "hey, lets ruin the economy, the environment and leave our children and grandchildren a big mess to clean up." If there was a way for my generation (X) to be magically transported back in time so that we grew up in the same time and under the same conditions as the boomers, we would have done the exact same thing.

You can blame the lousy economy on a lot of things: big banks, plutocrats, George W Bush, Bill Clinton and hell, even Ronald Reagan. But you can't blame it on the boomers as if they had a choice in the matter.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by habernac

I'd rather have todays vehicles with a fraction of the emissions of the gas guzzling 70's vehicles even if they cost more to get repaired.

I'd rather have one of these as my summer cruzin car

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

The personality of a generation is a direct result of the events and situations that shaped the people of that generation. It's not like the boomers all got together and said "hey, lets ruin the economy, the environment and leave our children and grandchildren a big mess to clean up." If there was a way for my generation (X) to be magically transported back in time so that we grew up in the same time and under the same conditions as the boomers, we would have done the exact same thing.

You can blame the lousy economy on a lot of things: big banks, plutocrats, George W Bush, Bill Clinton and hell, even Ronald Reagan. But you can't blame it on the boomers as if they had a choice in the matter.

Very true, the "Boomers" didn't leave the economy in very good shape, but a plumber or kindergarden teacher isn't the one who changed the gold standard to fiat money. For as much as Gen X caused all these problems, Gen Y is going to have an even worse effect (sorry in advance on behalf of my generation). I am glad, however, to see people like Bill Gates looking out for something more then their own pocket book.

Did you ever see that one segment on political lobbying and some of the stuff lobbiests do there? Makes every Clinton, Reagan, Greenspan, etc seem like saints.

[Flash Walken]

In the 1950s, western society has its strongest economic growth across all classes.

The strength of the Union is largely unequaled, Veterans are compensated for their sacrifices and progressively offered means through which to re-enter and prosper in society. A high-tax rate insured the prosperity of nations as a whole vs. enriching individuals. In Canada, the top marginal tax rate for income over 400 000 dropped from 80 percent in 1971 to 46 percent in 1994. Taxes on corporate income dropped from 3.9 percent to 1.8 percent as a percentage of GDP.

As the dominant voting demographic in North America, it becomes increasingly difficult to develop an alternate narrative for the Boomer generation.

Reagan. Mulroney. Thatcher. That is the legacy.