Use of Native American Imagery in Sports

[SeeGeeWhy]

http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/...ays-superbowl/

[Daradon]

Definitely change Redskins, that one is really offensive. Not to mention embarrassing for groups that are fans of them.

Chiefs seem fine to me, as do Blackhawks. The one in the middle is the Indians. I stopped using the word Indian in my phraseology more than 10 years ago unless refering to actual Indians from India. IE, would you like to go for Indian food? Years ago we used to call it East Indian food (and in the transition we still had to, cause no one knew what the heck you were talking about.), and if you've noticed, that has slowly slipped from our lexicon. Now most people know what your talking about when you say, hey, wanna go for some Indian food? Though some still don't. Even tougher when you say, oh, the guy with Indian heritage. But we're getting there.

Not to say people should be defined by their ethnic group, but dear god, sometimes you just gotta go there in a description. There's a difference between being properly PC, and overly PC. Gonna go a bit Chris Rock on this one but if I'm trying to explain a person to someone else while telling a story who isn't sure whom I'm talking about, do I really have to have five other memory joggers before I say, 'you know, the tall black guy'. It gets too silly at points. Ethnicity, for better or worse, is one of the first things we recognize. To not use it in description is silly. I'm sure it goes the other way too. And I think it even gets dangerous at points. There comes a point when we are so desperate at not being racist, that it becomes racist.

However, I know Indian is still a popular term for Native person in the States and is considered (probably wrongly) less pejorative than it is here.

What would be a good change I think, for the Redskins, is take the name of a tribe with a good history there. You can still keep the logo then, it's a nice logo, like the Blackhawks. And then you'd have a positive name. The Indians one is the logo that might be offensive. They should maybe change that too.

[neo45]

I can't believe it is a debate whether or not to change the name of a sports team from a racial slur. Seems like a no brainer to me that Redskins/Redmen has to go.

As for not using any imagery? Like the Blackhawks or Seminoles having to change their logo? I think that is pretty laughable

[Itse]

Just looking that headline in the link above seems to pretty strongly suggest that "Indian" is okay by now. (Which was a surprise to me actually.)

http://www.buzzfeed.com/joelanderson...-anti-redskins

National Congress of American Indians Releases Anti-Redskins Ad

Other than that, I'll paraphrase myself from an earlier post in this thread. It's just a couple of pages back, but then again it was months ago.

I don't like decisions that are based on someone being offended.

Someone is always offended. Many sports fans are propably offended by the idea that their team would need to change it's name against it's will. How do you compare offense A vs. offense B fairly? Does being native American give your personal feelings more weight? I don't see that it does.

But.

If you put the question in a more precise way, I think it makes it clear that these two are actually not at all equal positions. The Native American position is not simply about offense, it's about something more. It's about pejorative mystification of native American culture and them as an ethnic group, which serves to marginalize them in modern America. In short, it's actually very probably somewhat harmful to some people.

A sports fan might be offended because a team changes it's name, but he is not harmed. Native Americans are clearly harmed by harmful stereotypes and the use of pejorative language and imagery. This is why people defending the name "Redskins" IMO should just stop whining and suck it up, because catering to the personal sensitivities of sports fans is not worth harming people.

Redskins should change their name and imagery. The fact that it's a classic name mostly just underlines that this is not discussion we should be having today, it should have been done a long time ago.

[Itse]

As a sidenote:

I'm sure the owners of the Redskins have tons of other arguments, but of course this is again largely about the money. The Redskins brand is among the most valuable in all of pro sports, rated at $1.6 billion. How much of the brand loyalty is attached to that logo specifically? Nobody knows. And that's a lot of money to start betting on.

Of course the longer they wait, the worse this problem becomes. It would probably be smart to hedge their bets and start selling alternative imagery and perhaps another nickname. Sports journalists love nicknames after all.

After all, there is the risk that if national sensitivities change enough over time, they could eventually be forced to change it anyway.

[indes]

Between this and deporting Beiber the states really has its priorities in order

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Itse

Just looking that headline in the link above seems to pretty strongly suggest that "Indian" is okay by now. (Which was a surprise to me actually.)

not necessarily. It's more of an indication of what was acceptable when it was founded, which is the 1940's. The United Negro College Fund was founded at the same time, still exists with that name and I don't think you'd find anyone using 'negro' as an acceptable term nowadays.

[troutman]

Artists propose alternate logos for Redskins
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/10/wash...names-contest/

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Agree to disagree here because I don't see how moaning over the name of a sports team as honorable or admirable either.

It's great that the native groups have you as a spokesperson. Really puts things into perspective, how the whole thing is overblown and it shouldn't bother them.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Daradon

The one in the middle is the Indians. I stopped using the word Indian in my phraseology more than 10 years ago unless refering to actual Indians from India.

...The Indians one is the logo that might be offensive. They should maybe change that too.

In the case of the Indians, it's definitely the logo that's cringe-inducing. To me, it's worse than the issue with Redskins name. Imagine if there was an MLB team whose logo was an ethnic caricature of a Jew. How long do you think that would last?

And yes, we have the Vikings and the Celtics logos. But those ethnic logos come from the ethnicity of the fans, and originally the owners, of the team. It's one thing for a fan-base of mostly Scandinavian background to use a Viking logo. It's another thing entirely for a team to use an ethnic stereotype of a group that originally wasn't even allowed to attend games, who were not represented among the fans, the owners, the sportswriters.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

In my lifetime I have heard Calgarians being referred to as stampeders the exact same number of times I have heard natives be referred to as redskins. Would you go up to some random person in the city and call them a stampeder? No and if you did I bet they would either be confused or angered that you approached them in such a manner regardless of what you said.

Really? So the whole basis for your argument comes down to some made up, faux slur based on calling people "someone who stampedes"?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

In my lifetime I have heard Calgarians being referred to as stampeders the exact same number of times I have heard natives be referred to as redskins. Would you go up to some random person in the city and call them a stampeder? No and if you did I bet they would either be confused or angered that you approached them in such a manner regardless of what you said.

I have never ever heard that term used, and i have lived/worked in many different parts of Canada.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I have never ever heard that term used, and i have lived/worked in many different parts of Canada.

It's because he just invented it as a disparaging remark and is too embarrassed to admit that his argument is ridiculous.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I have never ever heard that term used, and i have lived/worked in many different parts of Canada.

He's lying. Born and raised calgarian and 10 minutes from the stampede. Never heard that term used either.

[strombad]

Why you would just invent a derogatory phrase about Calgarians on a message board filled with both Calgarians and people from abroad that are familiar with the outside perception of Calgarians is beyond me.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by troutman

Artists propose alternate logos for Redskins
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/10/wash...names-contest/

WTF is that thing supposed to be?

[Tinordi]

This thread really separates the wheat from the chaff on this board.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

This thread really separates the wheat from the chaff on this board.

Much like any thread discussing sexuality or homosexuality.

[MarchHare]

If the team was named the "Yellowskins" and their logo was a Fu Manchu-esque Asian caricature, nobody would be defending it. It amazes me that anyone in the year 2014 could still think that the Redskins' team name and logo is acceptable.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

If the team was named the "Yellowskins" and their logo was a Fu Manchu-esque Asian caricature, nobody would be defending it. It amazes me that anyone in the year 2014 could still think that the Redskins' team name and logo is acceptable.

Racism is alive and well in Canada, despite claims to the contrary.