Flames to announce plans to announce arena plans in the... future...

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Southside

Not without world class amenities.

Really it's hard to call a city world class when both of it's major sporting facilities are amongst the oldest and worst in the country compared to all the other major cities. Winnipeg looks down on Calgary in this aspect.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by skeena1

The Canucks never went bankrupt, but their owenrs were forced to to sell them, the NBA Grizzlies and the building. The burden of running two pro franchises with a 65 cent dollar proved too much.

Well the owner, Arthur Giffiths lost the Canucks, the arena and his fathers radio and television empire. He may have not gone bankrupt but his business holdings became a disaster.

Here's an interesting list of pro team owners worth from 1993.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...67/9/index.htm

and here's the teams value. Flames and Oilers valued at $65M, only $10M less than the Rangers.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...67/1/index.htm

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Really it's hard to call a city world class when both of it's major sporting facilities are amongst the oldest and worst in the country compared to all the other major cities. Winnipeg looks down on Calgary in this aspect.

Yeah well, they don't have any parks, so who cares what they think.

[mhsyyc]

Arenas and stadiums don't make a city world class but a city with the economic and political importance we have should have far better sporting facilities than we have. I want the ownership to pony up a whole lot of dough for a new arena and a new stadium because entrepreneurs like them have no basis for arguing they deserve an public money. I also want the city and the province to throw in some money too because great facilities add to the economic and cultural lives of a city.

I don't particularly know or care what the percentages of public vs private contribution are but let's just get it done. And the sooner the better.

[Roughneck]

So the private guys don't deserve money, but the public should give them money anyway and don't care what the split is so long as it gets done?

An interesting stance to be sure.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

So the private guys don't deserve money, but the public should give them money anyway and don't care what the split is so long as it gets done?

An interesting stance to be sure.

Kind of my stance as well, all over the map.

[jayswin]

Yeah, mine too. My stance is basically "I don't give a **** what percentage is paid by who, let's just get this thing started!".

[Mr.Coffee]

My stance is that I will be a skeleton by the time this bitch is announced.

[OffsideSpecialist]

Does a sports stadium really make a city "world class"? I've been to several "world class" cities and I don't know a thing about any of their sports stadiums. On a list of things that make a city "world class", I would protest that a sports stadium doesn't register much higher than what underwear the mayor wears.

I have also noticed at least one opponent to the Peace Bridge mention that this arena is needed to make Calgary "world class". In my opinion, the Peace Bridge does more to make Calgary "world class" than an arena at only a fraction of the cost.

[handgroen]

Originally Posted by RM14

Sens need that money, Melnyk admitted the team is loosing "staggering amounts of money"

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on-...ey-own-cap-set

Sharks owner during an interview:

the man has quite the financial portfolio and sporting background. Why, then, invest in a hockey team he readily admits can’t make money?

Easy.

“Despite it’s such a hard sport, and tough sport, and sometimes violent, it is aesthetically unbelievable when you see the guys and what they can do on skates at the tempo,” he said.

“This is missing in soccer.”

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...a-hockey-team/


or Blackhawks the 4th most valuable team in the leauge arn't even making money..

http://www.thestar.com/business/2013..._playoffs.html

i often wondered about the losing nature of owning sports franchises, but i think it may be as simple as; even though the team loses money year after year the asset appreciates in value faster than the lost revenue piles up, still making it a sound investment. couple that with the tax incentives of losing money as a business and the owners don't have a whole lot to cry about.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

However, there has to be some value at least. Take these scenarios. If just one person decides to come into town for just one night, to see a game or a show at a rink, that one person buying a ticket, getting a hotel room, paying for a cab, buying drinks and a meal on a trip they would not have made if the event wasn't going on, has just made an incremental positive impact to the city. Now of course, one person wouldn't justify any spend on such a facility, but how many people do that, I don't know, or how many locals spend money each night of an event that they wouldn't spend in Calgary if a game or concert wasn't on. The previous scenario happens every night there is an event on at the dome, it create value, in my mind that's not debatable, but how much value, and does it create even close to enough to warrant spend by the city.......that's very debatable for sure.

In this case.. the same scenario happens whether the owners get a new arena or they play in the Saddledome.

Just think of the recent lockout... did the Calgary economy suffer at all because of it? The arena was sitting empty for a long while and i doubt there was much impact. The bars/restaurants around the arena may have suffered, but most of the money that would have been spent there would have been spent in other areas of the city.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by OffsideSpecialist

Does a sports stadium really make a city "world class"? I've been to several "world class" cities and I don't know a thing about any of their sports stadiums. On a list of things that make a city "world class", I would protest that a sports stadium doesn't register much higher than what underwear the mayor wears.

I have also noticed at least one opponent to the Peace Bridge mention that this arena is needed to make Calgary "world class". In my opinion, the Peace Bridge does more to make Calgary "world class" than an arena at only a fraction of the cost.

I have stayed pretty quite on the topic. But I want to address this.

One of the points of a new arena/stadium is for them to be more than just a sports venue. They want the arena to decrease in size to increase the number of concerts they can do, plus with moving away from McMahon to an open air stadium with natural grass would open the door to the possibility of MLS and international soccer matches, it would also open up the possibility to outdoor concerts/events. The new arena/stadium combo would also be a major draw in bringing the Olympics back to Calgary.

These additional events may not make the city "world class" but it certainly puts them on the path to be one. I also think things like the peace bridge also help Calgary become a step closer to that goal. And let's be honest a 2nd Olympics would put Calgary in very exclusive company and I think in the minds of many would solidify Calgary as a world class city.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I have stayed pretty quite on the topic. But I want to address this.

One of the points of a new arena/stadium is for them to be more than just a sports venue. They want the arena to decrease in size to increase the number of concerts they can do, plus with moving away from McMahon to an open air stadium with natural grass would open the door to the possibility of MLS and international soccer matches, it would also open up the possibility to outdoor concerts/events. The new arena/stadium combo would also be a major draw in bringing the Olympics back to Calgary.

These additional events may not make the city "world class" but it certainly puts them on the path to be one. I also think things like the peace bridge also help Calgary become a step closer to that goal. And let's be honest a 2nd Olympics would put Calgary in very exclusive company and I think in the minds of many would solidify Calgary as a world class city.

My favourite thing about the peace bridge whiners, is that one of their main arguments was literally "It won't make Calgary a world class city, so there's no point".

Then, the New York Times named Calgary one of 50 places to travel to this year, and displayed and mentioned the peace bridge as part of a huge transition from a sleepy prairie city to a cultural hub, lol.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by flameswin

My favourite thing about the peace bridge whiners, is that one of their main arguments was literally "It won't make Calgary class city, so there's no point".

Then, the New York Times named Calgary one of 50 places to travel to this year, and displayed and mentioned the peace bridge as part of a huge transition from a sleepy prairie city to a cultural hub, lol.

And articles like that will also help Calgary become "world class"

One of the things IMO that helps show that Calgary is indeed "world class" or at least very close to it is the Flames alumni association. I was chatting with Rene Corbet a couple weeks ago and he was saying the alumni association has 120 some former NHL players involved in it, a number of whom never even played for the Flames but they came to Calgary after their careers because of how great of a city it is. These are guys that could live anywhere they wanted including a number of cities that are without question world class and they still choose Calgary.

[EYE_Overstand]

There is a hell of a lot more missing in Calgary that will not allow it to be truely world class.... But a lot is happening to make it happen...

1. Finally a new airport (terminal)
2. Better restaurants (not just chains and pubs)
3. Infrastructure is getting developed... The lack of a c train from the airport is needed and the SE train line needs to be built
4. New stadium(s) ...has to be Downtown IMO
5. More people living DT
6. Has anyone been to the glenbow lately ? That place really needs a facelift inside. Last time I went was 3 years ago and that might have happened already.

But besides the points, Calgary will need a better stadium and to create an all around sports complex with football - lacrosse - WHL - NHL - concerts etc would go a long ass way to making that distinction somewhat deserving.

I do struggle with the fact that these are private enterprises and if they receive tax dollars and/or land deals that it increases the owners valuation of their holdings... But then again... What kind of tax dollars will they receive? $5 a year from every calgarian for 10 years? Cause if that's the case then i would be down with it. But then again what is the right number? I don't blame them for keeping a lid on all of it till they are ready with everything.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by EYE_Overstand

3. Infrastructure is getting developed... The lack of a c train from the airport is needed

Not to detract from this thread, but this is a massive assumption. Not many cities of 1.3M have light rail all the way to their airports. I would be hard pressed for you to find any evidence of an overwhelming demand (in 2014) for this to be 'needed'

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by EYE_Overstand

6. Has anyone been to the glenbow lately ? That place really needs a facelift inside. Last time I went was 3 years ago and that might have happened already.

The Glenbow is a piece of crap, and just needs to be razed and replaced entirely. The place feels like a converted office building, not a museum.

We need a new museum space, and a new contemporary-art museum (the NMC will be a very nice addition to the city, but it doesn't really address these two needs). Every self-respecting city has those two things, and we have a half-assed version of one, and nothing even close to the other. Never mind world-class, we're barely even steerage class.

As a tax-payer, I'd much rather pay towards a new Glenbow than for a hockey arena.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by flameswin

My favourite thing about the peace bridge whiners, is that one of their main arguments was literally "It won't make Calgary a world class city, so there's no point".

.

For myself and most of the people I know it isn't the bridge itself that is the problem, rather the process around the bridge:design/lack of open tender/build that is the issue.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Table 5

As a tax-payer, I'd much rather pay towards a new Glenbow than for a hockey arena.

Gross. Just gross. Fingers crossed people with the same outlook don't make the final decision on this.

[Muta]

There are plans for the Glenbow. Be patient.