Bush vs. Kerry

[troutman]

What was with that girl?

Despite the moderator's claim that all the people in the hall were ündecideds", she was the most obvious plant of the night for either party IMO.

it's been on the internets".

Yes, and Gore invented those internets too.

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by troutman@Oct 9 2004, 03:28 AM
What was with that girl?

Despite the moderator's claim that all the people in the hall were ündecideds", she was the most obvious plant of the night for either party IMO.

The rule for the crowd was that they had to pre-submit a question for each candidate and the moderator then selected the questions that would be permitted.

In other words, if she was a plant, it was with the approval of the moderator which would be unlikely.

Without the death stare, it was a pretty normal question.

EDIT: CNN/USAToday snap poll immediately after the debate found 47% of those watching favoured Kerry, 45% Bush and the rest undecided with a plus/minus error rate of 4%. In other words, pretty much a dead tie.

Cowperson

[TheCommodoreAfro]

Scoreboard for me is Bush gets points for style, but Kerry actually crushed him on substance in this one.

How many times are we going to hear "Weapons of Mass Destruction" uttered by Bush, in spite of everything stating there was none, during these sessions?

Here's an interesting scoreboard from MSNBC.com. Turns out the revenue from a logging company that Bush denied he had any involvement with turns out to be a lie - he does own part of it, and claimed it as revenue. I wonder how much we'll be hearing about that in the next few days.

Blow by blow account of the debate from MSNBC

[transplant99]

My favorite moment was the environmental question and Georgie had obviously rehearsed this one and on the top of his list was "we reduced diesel emissions from diesel off-road vehicles by %90". Well thank god they did that. All through the Clinton years there was that uproar about all the smog caused by the hundreds of millions of people driving their quads to work. I'm glad they finally did something about that.

On that same question he also made some strange comment that seemed to say "we don't cut down enough trees and that is damaging the environment".

I'm not familiar with all that stuff, but when asked "what will you do for the environment", it seems you might want to answer with something other than "cut down more trees".

Agreed. Very strange exchange when this came up. I was left wondering what it was he just said.

He also said "New-cular" and my personal favorite "Veee-hickle" and also I think he used the phrase "it's been on the internets".

Actually, thats the common way to pronounce that word down here in the South. Both very educated and those not-so-much say the same thing. Still makes me do a double-take when I hear it.

On the other side, the guy I cheer for was really gasping for air with parts of the stem-cell research answer, especially when he couldn't spit out the word quadriplegic or spinal injury. That dragged on for a few seconds.

That very intense young woman with the anti-abortion question really had him floundering at times as well. What was with that girl? If she was talking to me like that from up that close I'd think she was about to attack me, or at least burst into tears. She was intense, that one. Georgie calmed her down though with his simple answers to complicated questions.

Both guys muddled their way through this one. Horrible answers. Wasn't sure what it was either was really saying.

All in all it was at the very least a spirited debate, with both guys being very "Presidential", and niether one dominating the other.

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by TheCommodoreAfro@Oct 9 2004, 10:14 AM
Scoreboard for me is Bush gets points for style, but Kerry actually crushed him on substance in this one.

How many times are we going to hear "Weapons of Mass Destruction" uttered by Bush, in spite of everything stating there was none, during these sessions?

Here's an interesting scoreboard from MSNBC.com. Turns out the revenue from a logging company that Bush denied he had any involvement with turns out to be a lie - he does own part of it, and claimed it as revenue. I wonder how much we'll be hearing about that in the next few days.

Blow by blow account of the debate from MSNBC

Here's an interesting scoreboard from MSNBC.com. Turns out the revenue from a logging company that Bush denied he had any involvement with turns out to be a lie - he does own part of it, and claimed it as revenue. I wonder how much we'll be hearing about that in the next few days.

It was amusing Kerry would know it but Bush didn't given it was on factcheck.org before the debate.

The $84 comes from an oil and gas company trust that happens to have bought a limited partnership in a tree company which then spun off $84 in royalties in a single year.

From factcheck.org:

. . . . the $84 in Schedule C income was from Bush's Lone Star Trust, which is actually described on the 2001 income-tax returns as an "oil and gas production" business. The Lone Star Trust now owns 50% of the tree-growing company, but didn't get into that business until two years after the $84 in question. So we should have described the $84 as coming from an "oil and gas" business in 2001, and will amend that in our earlier article.

Its a fairly common scenario for a multi-millionaire to have obscure bits of pieces of things like this ,which come from to him indirectly through spin-offs, etc, and not even be aware of it.

That Bush's team didn't pick up on it and warn him ahead of time of a potential ambush on a key debate point (small business) is probably the real story.

A fact check for both candidates at CNN.com reveals further bloopers.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/08/factcheck/

Cowperson

[Lanny_MacDonald]

The polls are in...

Kerry 75%, Bush 22%, Tie 3%

Kerry 65%, Bush 35%

Kerry 64%, Bush 33%, Tie 3%

Is it safe to say that the Bush Administration's lying has finally started to catch up to them?

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Lanny for someone who is so very critical of sources I find it odd that you would find an online poll to be a solid method of testing and finding out what the average americans view is. Those things are rigged more than the Iraqi election.

[troutman]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard@Oct 9 2004, 02:35 PM
Lanny for someone who is so very critical of sources I find it odd that you would find an online poll to be a solid method of testing and finding out what the average americans view is. Those things are rigged more than the Iraqi election.#

That's at least 4 polls in this thread alone giving the edge to Kerry. The Republicans have to be very worried about the momentum shift.

Pundit's Scorecard:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/special/p...dits/index.html

Paul Begala
Kerry clearly has mastered the material. He even knew Bush's tax returns better than Bush did. He was more conversational than Bush, engaged the audience members by name.

Bush did not have many factual errors, except not knowing about his part ownership in a timber company. But regarding his delivery -- switch to decaf, dude. Way too strident. He was pressing. Loosen up and lighten up, sir.

Bob Novak
I thought Bush won the debate. Kerry didn't make any major gaffes but Bush showed he wasn't the ninny that he appeared to be in Florida.

[Gugstanley]

Originally posted by 300spartans@Oct 9 2004, 02:00 AM
According to Bush, Canada=3rdworld=our drugs will kill you!.

He did not say that. You should atleast put everything he said

[Bertuzzied]

Originally posted by Gugstanley+Oct 9 2004, 03:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Gugstanley @ Oct 9 2004, 03:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-300spartans@Oct 9 2004, 02:00 AM
According to Bush, Canada=3rdworld=our drugs will kill you!.

He did not say that. You should atleast put everything he said [/b][/quote]
JOHN HORSTMAN: Mr. President, why did you block the reimportation of safer and inexpensive drugs from Canada which would have cut 40 to 60 percent off of the cost?

BUSH: I haven't yet. Just want to make sure they're safe. When a drug comes in from Canada, I want to make sure it cures you and doesn't kill you.

And what my worry is is that, you know, it looks like it's from Canada, and it might be from a third world.

[I]

hmm just because our cdn dollar is kicking ass this year you don't have to call us a 3rd world country Bush! But because we only have one internet up here and the US has lots of internets i can see how Canada is laggin behind.

[Red]

You guys are misunderstanding him. He ment to say that althought they come from Canada they may have originated in a third world country and only been packaged in Canada (or sold by Canadian business).
________
Arizona Dispensary

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald@Oct 9 2004, 02:30 PM
The polls are in...

Kerry 75%, Bush 22%, Tie 3%

Kerry 65%, Bush 35%

Kerry 64%, Bush 33%, Tie 3%

Is it safe to say that the Bush Administration's lying has finally started to catch up to them?

I've seen two scientific polls on the debate last night. CNN/USAToday has it 47-45 Kerry, polling only people who watched the debate, with a margin of error of plus or minus 4%. At ABCnews.com, the other scientific poll has it 44-41 for Kerry with 13% saying a tie, also with a narrow margin of error that make it a statistical dead heat.

The CNN link is above. The ABC link is here.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/Vo...oll_041008.html

The online polls we've seen for all three debates have been suspiciously uniform in their results, as though one party learned some valuable lessons about poll hijacking from Calgarypuck Jihads. The scientific versions are obviously better as indicators.

As to the Canadian drug issue, Bush said generic drugs produced in third world countries might find their way to America via the legitimacy of Canadian on-line pharmacies. Sounds lame to me but he didn't say Canada is a third world country.

Cowperson

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Cowperson+Oct 9 2004, 07:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cowperson @ Oct 9 2004, 07:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-TheCommodoreAfro@Oct 9 2004, 10:14 AM
Scoreboard for me is Bush gets points for style, but Kerry actually crushed him on substance in this one.

How many times are we going to hear "Weapons of Mass Destruction" uttered by Bush, in spite of everything stating there was none, during these sessions?

Here's an interesting scoreboard from MSNBC.com. Turns out the revenue from a logging company that Bush denied he had any involvement with turns out to be a lie - he does own part of it, and claimed it as revenue. I wonder how much we'll be hearing about that in the next few days.

Blow by blow account of the debate from MSNBC

Here's an interesting scoreboard from MSNBC.com. Turns out the revenue from a logging company that Bush denied he had any involvement with turns out to be a lie - he does own part of it, and claimed it as revenue. I wonder how much we'll be hearing about that in the next few days.

It was amusing Kerry would know it but Bush didn't given it was on factcheck.org before the debate.

The $84 comes from an oil and gas company trust that happens to have bought a limited partnership in a tree company which then spun off $84 in royalties in a single year.

From factcheck.org:

. . . . the $84 in Schedule C income was from Bush's Lone Star Trust, which is actually described on the 2001 income-tax returns as an "oil and gas production" business. The Lone Star Trust now owns 50% of the tree-growing company, but didn't get into that business until two years after the $84 in question. So we should have described the $84 as coming from an "oil and gas" business in 2001, and will amend that in our earlier article.

Its a fairly common scenario for a multi-millionaire to have obscure bits of pieces of things like this ,which come from to him indirectly through spin-offs, etc, and not even be aware of it.

That Bush's team didn't pick up on it and warn him ahead of time of a potential ambush on a key debate point (small business) is probably the real story.

A fact check for both candidates at CNN.com reveals further bloopers.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/08/factcheck/

Cowperson [/b][/quote]
I forgot about that. Bush had a chance there for a zinger but the mouse wasn't turning the wheel fast enough. He was searching, you could just tell, but the best he could come up with was "huh........huh.......want some wood"?

On the other side, at one point Kerry said "looking around here tonight, I know that only 3 people in this room, the President, myself and the moderator are the only ones that benefit from the tax cut for people making over 200 grand a year".

I know what he was trying to get at, but for the sensitive types (or Republicans) might hear it as "What are you trying to say, I look poor"?

It was kind of funny. He's been wailing on that 200 grand business all along.

[Flame On]

You guys are misunderstanding him. He ment to say that althought they come from Canada they may have originated in a third world country and only been packaged in Canada (or sold by Canadian business).
But that's it isn't it. He can never say what he means or stay on target. They have WMD, I meant to say they intended to. No? Oh, they were conected with Al Queda...No? Oh they were a threat to america...No? Oh they were involved with oil for food is what I meant to say.
On that same question he also made some strange comment that seemed to say "we don't cut down enough trees and that is damaging the environment".
I'm not familiar with all that stuff, but when asked "what will you do for the environment", it seems you might want to answer with something other than "cut down more trees".
Agreed. Very strange exchange when this came up. I was left wondering what it was he just said. I think that was to do with lumber companies who don't want to let forests have their natural fires, or let them have controled burns. So in the end there are huge fires that get out of control cause the forests were not managed. By this I would assume he's saying that they should be managed better, which would mean the lumber companies would object, so don't hold your breath.
For my part I thought Bush looked unhinged at times. Like when he refused to sit down and not follow the moderator and stormed in with rebuttle.
As for Kerry and the abortion answer, I don't see where the confusion is. He doesn't agree with it, but will not pass a law to enforce against it. Much like he doesn't agree with white supremacy movements, but because of free speech will not enforce against them spouting it off.

[FlamesAddiction]

Does Bush wear a wire at the debates?

http://images.salon.com/news/feature/2004/...e/index_np.html

[snowdude]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction@Oct 9 2004, 01:10 PM
Does Bush wear a wire at the debates?

http://images.salon.com/news/feature/2004/...e/index_np.html

If it was a wire then he should fire the people feeding him info because he hasn't done a great job in either debate