People saying Bergeron is not a franchise center completely blows my mind. A Cup, two visits to the cup finals in the last 3 years, drives a team that is a perrenial contender, constant Selke conversation/nominations, 2 placements on Team Canada AS A CENTER. He must be doing something right. Centerman are not always going to be top-point producers if they are two-way players unless youre Sidney Crosby. Citing a PPG as a condition of the label is ridiculous. Like someone on every team scores at that clip or something. Has Toews ever been PPG? I put Toews and Bergeron in the same level. Which is the top.
Same with Kopitar. The fact that this is even a conversation is ludicrous.
Also, I came in here for Oiler's hilarity. Where'd that go?
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Look, clearly Edmonton isn't intentionally tanking, they've been the victim of bad breaks and injuries that would crush other teams and bad fans that negatively effect moral in the locker room with their chants and throwing the jersey's on the ice.
I mean my god according to my Orange Julius guy un-impeachable source, Taylor Hall cried for several hours the other night after the Jersey hit the ice.
I mean lets be honest, its going to take some time for the kids to learn under a innovative coach like Dallas Eakins who has invented the swarm defense which when executed properly will cause doom for any heroic band of rebels.
We know that Kevin Lowe is just lying in wait to get that perfect deal where Hemsky will traded for Sid the kid and Pittsburgh will realize that they will have to add to the deal to get an awesome talent like Hemsky.
And lets not for get Mac-T he's got an MBA you know.
Look all the pieces are there and it was clear last night that Edmonton flexed its muscle and Nashville got blown away and its clear that the turn around is happening now. The Oilers don't need that number one draft pick. They don't need Ekblad or Reinhart or Bennet. Not when you have Justin Coffey, Taylor Messier and Ryan Nugent Gretzky. What they really need is a protocal droid that understands the programming language of binary load lifters.
the second half of the season is going to be the season of the Oilers, yeah they might not make the playoffs because they laid in wait ready to spring for slightly too long, but the Oilers are in place to intimidate the rest of the NHL and start setting the pace for the next 5 Stanley Cups. Do the math
Its inevitable, the rest of the NHL has walked into a trap, Kevin Lowe has his best troops on the sanctury moon.
Last edited by CaptainCrunch; 01-27-2014 at 10:34 AM.
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Comrades, you see, our 8 err 5 year plan is proceeding as expected, with the heroic efforts of Commissar Lowe and the Commander in Chief of the East Edmonton Hockey District Mac-T, the Soviet errr Oilers are becoming a vast and undefeatable army as our brilliant science team under the leadership of Hero First Class Eakins creates innovative new strategies to protect the Mother rink.
Take heart my fellow comrades there will be Hockey Supremacy in our life times.
Have faith in such great hero's as Taylor Hall Ryan Nugent Hall and most importantly Justin Schultz who's extreme display of sportsman ship in making sure that the opposition has a chance to play with the puck as well.
Enjoy watching Comrade Bryz who we your comrades in government bought in for you.
On a side note, public displays of lack of affection for Comrades Lowe, Mac-T and Eakins will no longer be tolerated, the Politburo met last night and decided that such displays are bad for the morale of your team and the hard working fellow workers tasked with executing this 10 year err 5 year plan that just started about 6 hours ago.
Rejoice Comrades while our enemies weep, and take solace that this time we will not have to burn our fields and our homes and our season tickets.
Comrade Stalin loves you like his own Children, and he especially loves the Oilers, so if you love me, it is only logical that you unconditionally love the Oilers who I add have vanquished two foes in a row.
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Wow, has the term 'franchise' player ever been degraded. It used to mean a first-ballot hall of famer who you build your whole team around for a decade or more. There used to be maybe 5 of 6 franchise players in the league. Gretzky. Lemieux. Bourque. Sakic. Roy. Yzerman.
But now it means established front-line player, and there are like 18 franchise centers alone in the league? So looks like we'll have to come up with a new term for the handful of players in the league who can change the complexion and fortunes of an entire franchise. How about mega-super-duper-franchise player?
Wow, has the term 'franchise' player ever been degraded. It used to mean a first-ballot hall of famer who you build your whole team around for a decade or more. There used to be maybe 5 of 6 franchise players in the league. Gretzky. Lemieux. Bourque. Sakic. Roy. Yzerman.
But now it means established front-line player, and there are like 18 franchise centers alone in the league? So looks like we'll have to come up with a new term for the handful of players in the league who can change the complexion and fortunes of an entire franchise. How about mega-super-duper-franchise player?
I've always considered a 'Franchise player' to be the cornerstone of a team.
Not all cornerstones are made equal.
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Wow, has the term 'franchise' player ever been degraded. It used to mean a first-ballot hall of famer who you build your whole team around for a decade or more. There used to be maybe 5 of 6 franchise players in the league. Gretzky. Lemieux. Bourque. Sakic. Roy. Yzerman.
But now it means established front-line player, and there are like 18 franchise centers alone in the league? So looks like we'll have to come up with a new term for the handful of players in the league who can change the complexion and fortunes of an entire franchise. How about mega-super-duper-franchise player?
yeah I agree. Although the new draft buzz word that kind of annoys me is the "generational talent" that seems to come along a lot now days. Although every time I hear that I chuckle a bit because I am reminded how an Oiler poster (I think it was Verve) made the statement that Yakapov was the next Bure. I laugh harder now.
People saying Bergeron is not a franchise center completely blows my mind. A Cup, two visits to the cup finals in the last 3 years, drives a team that is a perrenial contender, constant Selke conversation/nominations, 2 placements on Team Canada AS A CENTER. He must be doing something right. Centerman are not always going to be top-point producers if they are two-way players unless youre Sidney Crosby. Citing a PPG as a condition of the label is ridiculous. Like someone on every team scores at that clip or something. Has Toews ever been PPG? I put Toews and Bergeron in the same level. Which is the top.
Same with Kopitar. The fact that this is even a conversation is ludicrous.
Also, I came in here for Oiler's hilarity. Where'd that go?
Franchise player to most of us refers to a player to build your team around. Ie. The franchise player. When you think of the franchise, you think of that player. When people say Boston, how many people immediately think of Bergeron? Two. His parents. Every team does not have a franchise centre. In fact there isn't even 30 franchise players in the league.
How many GMs would build their team around Bergeron? Zero
How many teams would build around Chara? Many
Sorry, but Bergeron is not a franchise center. He's a great player and great defensively, but the only thing ludicrous is the Toews comparison.
Toews was the third youngest captain in NHL history, Bergeron is not.
Toews has a Conn Smyth, Bergeron does not
Toews is the youngest player to be a Triple Crown winner (Stanley Cup, Olympics, World Juniors), Bergen is not.
Wow, has the term 'franchise' player ever been degraded. It used to mean a first-ballot hall of famer who you build your whole team around for a decade or more. There used to be maybe 5 of 6 franchise players in the league. Gretzky. Lemieux. Bourque. Sakic. Roy. Yzerman.
You could also add:
Lindros
Hull
Jagr
Kariya
Forsberg
Sundin
Savard
Robitaillie
.....i think the list could go on as well if you consider the Turgeons, modanos, Hawerchucks etc.
It looks to me like you may be getting Franchise and Elite mixed up.
Oh, a just to get back on topic ...Oilers suck.....notice how I didn't include any on my list!
I've always considered a 'Franchise player' to be the cornerstone of a team.
Not all cornerstones are made equal.
Thank you for putting that in terms that most people should be able to understand! Perhaps Kopitar doesn't fit the mould of Gradin-23's "franchise center" definition, but really ask Dean Lombardi, Darryl Sutter or any of his teammates and they will call him that without question. Lonbardi has referred to him as such numerous times and that should be enough for anyone. Who exactly are we as fans to define who is and who isn't? Jeez it's hilarious how some people are willing to throw down ''well he's not as good as Crosby/ins't a PPG over 1000 games so he's not MY definition of a franchise center". If he is the cornerstone of the team, then he is the franchise centre. The team is built around him. Doesn't matter how many points he puts up. If the team is built around him, he's the franchise center. Bergeron fits the mould perfectly. The teams defensive identity is built around him upfront, and Chara on the backend. Therefore he is a cornerstone.
Such a silly debate. Some players are more important to their franchise then they are to others (ie Iggy. franchise player here, definitely not franchise player for BOS or Pitts). There is no set term for franchise player. If he is the cornerstone of a team, he should be called a franchise player.
Last edited by Huntingwhale; 01-28-2014 at 02:22 PM.
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Franchise player to most of us refers to a player to build your team around. Ie. The franchise player. When you think of the franchise, you think of that player. When people say Boston, how many people immediately think of Bergeron? Two. His parents. Every team does not have a franchise centre. In fact there isn't even 30 franchise players in the league.
How many GMs would build their team around Bergeron? Zero
How many teams would build around Chara? Many
Sorry, but Bergeron is not a franchise center. He's a great player and great defensively, but the only thing ludicrous is the Toews comparison.
Toews was the third youngest captain in NHL history, Bergeron is not.
Toews has a Conn Smyth, Bergeron does not
Toews is the youngest player to be a Triple Crown winner (Stanley Cup, Olympics, World Juniors), Bergen is not.
Toews had won two cups, Bergeron has one.
Toews is 0.91 PPG career, Bergeron is 0.74
These two are not the same
It's really just an argument about semantics. People get so bent out of shape regarding just words and how you choose to describe players.
I'll give you the Toews comparison, although I wouldn't say it's ludicrous to compare the two. Yes Toews is a better player, but IN THAT ROLE, they are very comparable. IE, if you're looking for a top line, defensevly reliable center that can get you points and be clutch, my list goes Crosby, Toews, Bergeron. But I would agree that the one franchise player on the Bruins would be Chara. Dude is a monster.
My definition of a franchise center is a top-line center that you can build a championship team around. Yes, the Bruins are built around Chara moreso than any other player, but Bergeron is their championship franchise center and will be for quite a few more years.
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Originally Posted by CliffFletcher
Wow, has the term 'franchise' player ever been degraded. It used to mean a first-ballot hall of famer who you build your whole team around for a decade or more. There used to be maybe 5 of 6 franchise players in the league. Gretzky. Lemieux. Bourque. Sakic. Roy. Yzerman.
But now it means established front-line player, and there are like 18 franchise centers alone in the league? So looks like we'll have to come up with a new term for the handful of players in the league who can change the complexion and fortunes of an entire franchise. How about mega-super-duper-franchise player?
How about...Hall of Fame Player....
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It's really just an argument about semantics. People get so bent out of shape regarding just words and how you choose to describe players.
I'll give you the Toews comparison, although I wouldn't say it's ludicrous to compare the two. Yes Toews is a better player, but IN THAT ROLE, they are very comparable. IE, if you're looking for a top line, defensevly reliable center that can get you points and be clutch, my list goes Crosby, Toews, Bergeron. But I would agree that the one franchise player on the Bruins would be Chara. Dude is a monster.
My definition of a franchise center is a top-line center that you can build a championship team around. Yes, the Bruins are built around Chara moreso than any other player, but Bergeron is their championship franchise center and will be for quite a few more years.
How about...Hall of Fame Player....
I agree is semantics. To me franchise player means the player is such a big part of the franchise (ie marketability, on ice success, etc) that the player essentially is the franchise.
In that role, Bergeron and Toews are similar, but I'd still argue Toews brings more tangible and intangible benefits.
Wow, has the term 'franchise' player ever been degraded. It used to mean a first-ballot hall of famer who you build your whole team around for a decade or more. There used to be maybe 5 of 6 franchise players in the league. Gretzky. Lemieux. Bourque. Sakic. Roy. Yzerman.
But now it means established front-line player, and there are like 18 franchise centers alone in the league? So looks like we'll have to come up with a new term for the handful of players in the league who can change the complexion and fortunes of an entire franchise. How about mega-super-duper-franchise player?
Its called a generational player. You named players that rank in the top 50 players of all time.
Edmonton fans are already wondering if an Ekblad Nurse pairing is going to be Pietrangelo J Bo or Keith Seabrook and are back to comparing their rebuild to Chicago's again.
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If oiler fans/management are seriously talking about McDavid, it's definitely because the uneducated losers think he's 2014 draft eligible.
If the oilers are really in the conversation for McDavid a year from now, and Kevin Lowe hasn't been fired, Katz better have his franchise revoked.
Lol. What a joke. As a flames fan who has professed to have seen Rock Bottom, I can still look at the standings, or the ownership, or the management, or the coaching, and say with my brain and my heart that they have tried their best to win, and/or done their best to make intelligent decisions for the future.
I really don't know what the hell is going on up there.
